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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Autism and MNHQ moderation

326 replies

HypocrisyHere · 04/01/2022 10:24

I am starting this thread as suggested by @HebeMumsnet following the other thread I started last week

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4439585-MN-and-their-approach-to-autism?pg=1

The point was the lack of consistency in moderation (the screenshots contained two threads in my watchlist - one deleted due to its title, the other - the “support” thread - allowed to stand despite what many to believe to be a far, far more offensive title).

From the linked above thread you will see many autistic people who feel that MNHQ allow many posts which are based on outdated, inaccurate and harmful stereotypes of autistic people. Further, on the support thread, the majority of posters have self-diagnosed Their partners and many of us view this as extremely offensive as again, this self diagnosis is based on these outdated stereotypes (please note an individual self-diagnosing themselves is a totally different issue and though an important discussion, not one I intended to raise on my original thread). I have summarised my thoughts on that thread in my post I made on 31/12/21 at 12:09.

I also made it clear from my opening post that I think parents of autistic children also need a space to seek support (hence me questioning why first thread was deleted). I know that many parents need this. But you will also see that many of these parents often accuse autistic adults without learning difficulties of trying to advocate for their children. I can state that in my case this is absolutely untrue and I did not see any others in the thread doing so. But I want to be clear that I absolutely support the need for this but it is not fair for these parents to refer to our autism as “mild” which they frequently do. This is a very outdated term which many of us find very offensive as it is based in a neurotypical person’s view of us and not on our actual “lived experience”. Spending the majority of your school years as an outcast and a person who can be mocked is not a mild experience for a child.

On the linked thread you will also see that we have been subjected to a whole load of ableist comments - that there’s something wrong with is, that we need to realise how negatively we impact people, that we are selfish for wanting to centre the discussion on us etc. this highlights the deep misunderstanding, ignorance and downright prejudice many people have towards us.

I think many of us would welcome a productive dialogue with MNHQ where we could address these issues as well as discussing the harm threads about autistic people cause (which includes the support thread). Many of us have acknowledged that we understand our behaviours may seem “difficult” but for us many, many neurotypical behaviours, which we need to accommodate every day, are difficult for us. This is a two-way street and we won’t make progress until BOTH “sides” respect each other.

One final clarification. I am in no way attempting to speak for all autistic people here. I started the thread sharing my own opinion and many people supported me (when I last looked 65% supported me). What I have written here are my own feelings on the subject.

Thank you for asking me to post here and I very much hope we can make progress on this issue and that MN (and society in general) can become a place where autism is understood and accepted.

OP posts:
Ovenaffray · 04/01/2022 20:30

It isn’t appropriate to say “the autistics seem to like this or that”. It isn’t appropriate to say “the neurotypicals seem to this or that” either.

BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 04/01/2022 20:32

No, no standing up for ourselves. We're supposed to be cute 'n' kwirky somewhere else.....go and stand in that corner plz.....and NO being rude.

OnlyAFleshWound · 04/01/2022 20:33

Are you the same poster who compared autism to being Jewish or Muslim? And said OCD wasn't an illness?

And you're complaining about other people offending you?

Thoosa · 04/01/2022 20:33

Agree generalisations are a huge problem.

Perfectly happy with “the NTs and the NDs”, though, myself.

BachAndByte · 04/01/2022 20:33

I really don’t like the term “autistics” - I find it dehumanising. If someone who is actually autistic chooses to use the term, I can put up with it but really shouldn’t be used by anyone who isn’t autistic.

Agree NT and ND are probably the most neutral if an abbreviation is needed (and, let’s face it, on MN it probably is!)

Ovenaffray · 04/01/2022 20:34

@OnlyAFleshWound

Are you the same poster who compared autism to being Jewish or Muslim? And said OCD wasn't an illness?

And you're complaining about other people offending you?

Is that directed at me? If so, no I am not that poster, as I am sure MNHQ can confirm.
HerRoyalHappiness · 04/01/2022 20:36

We differentiate between all sorts. .
Neurotypicals and neurodiverse
Sighted and partially sighted or blind
Deaf or partially deaf or hearing
Muslims or Hindus or Jews or catholics etc etc.

It's OK to name a group of people when discussing that group of people as long as its not a slur or downright offensive. Neurotypical means just that. You are typical of what's expected in society neurologically.

So I could say Muslim women often wear a headscarf to cover their hair.
My son is partially deaf
My other son is neurodiverse

It's OK to make distinctions between groups of people.

Thoosa · 04/01/2022 20:38

@OnlyAFleshWound

Are you the same poster who compared autism to being Jewish or Muslim? And said OCD wasn't an illness?

And you're complaining about other people offending you?

Who were you asking? I’ve lost track.
Ovenaffray · 04/01/2022 20:45

It’s the use of “neurotypicals” rather than “neurotypical” I think is problematic. Saying “the neurodiverse” is different to saying “the neurodiverses”.

I’m probably not articulating myself very well. The s on the end feels dehumanising to me.

5zeds · 04/01/2022 20:48

I find “quirky” deeply infantilising and minimising but on the whole try to read without too much focus on terminology (unless glaringly incorrect). I’m more interested in peoples intent/experience/point than the terminology because what is acceptable is very very different depending on culture and background.

For example I know someone who uses the term “autist” which I find charming but haven’t heard in the uk.

OnlyAFleshWound · 04/01/2022 20:49

@Thoosa
@Ovenaffray

Is that directed at me? If so, no I am not that poster, as I am sure MNHQ can confirm.

No, sorry. I meant the OP.

Thoosa · 04/01/2022 20:55

@Ovenaffray

It’s the use of “neurotypicals” rather than “neurotypical” I think is problematic. Saying “the neurodiverse” is different to saying “the neurodiverses”.

I’m probably not articulating myself very well. The s on the end feels dehumanising to me.

ISWYM. Will chew that one over. Smile
HypocrisyHere · 04/01/2022 21:02

@OnlyAFleshWound

You are referring to me re OCD. I explained on the thread that I thought OCD came under the ND umbrella. I apologised profusely for my ignorance. See attached screenshot.

But are you seriously saying that because I offended someone with my ignorance I have no right to complain about someone offending me? That’s utterly illogical.

And btw absolutely no-one on that thread compared autism to Judaism or Islam FFS. What an abhorrent misrepresentation which again reveals your disdain for us. Why are you targeting us? Can you not just let us ask for fairness and respect in peace?

So - I apologised for my ignorance - are you going to apologise for yours? Or is it that you actually just don’t like autistic adults who can advocate for themselves and you are looking at any way possible to shut down this discussion?

Autism and MNHQ moderation
OP posts:
BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 04/01/2022 21:19

If I remember correctly that poster was a neurotypical person who said that Muslim and Jewish people don't have anything wrong with them, whereas autistics do when somebody had pointed out that other minority groups wouldn't be treated the way we are.

BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 04/01/2022 21:25

I guess in a hierarchical society we must come somewhere between convicts and people with antisocial personality disorder, although those two groups can probably be quite charming on occasions whereas we might struggle with that 🤔

Thoosa · 04/01/2022 21:26

Wow. Someone said that? I just reached a new depth of shock.

OnlyAFleshWound · 04/01/2022 21:36

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

If I remember correctly that poster was a neurotypical person who said that Muslim and Jewish people don't have anything wrong with them, whereas autistics do when somebody had pointed out that other minority groups wouldn't be treated the way we are.
That is an outright lie.

Here's the screenshot.

Autism and MNHQ moderation
Caramellatteplease · 04/01/2022 21:36

The other thread turned into a shitstorm at various places. I'm not quite sure how on earth you figured 65% supported you, but by your calculation 45% did not. I'm not sure how MN are meant to moderate that without upsetting more or less half of the relevant population either way. And that assuming there isnt a large chunk of people just didnt post because it was/was going to be a shitstom.

To me it comes down to one thing. You shouldn't stop people getting support because you are offended.

I think MN is pretty awesome when it comes to moderation

OnlyAFleshWound · 04/01/2022 21:36

@Thoosa

Wow. Someone said that? I just reached a new depth of shock.
No, they didn't. See above.
BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 04/01/2022 21:37

I know, it wasn't a good moment 😬 nothing really shocks or surprises me any more though. And we're supposed to be the ones who lack tact and social finesse.

BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 04/01/2022 21:38

It was said further down and it led to a conversation about how there's nothing wrong with being autistic.

OnlyAFleshWound · 04/01/2022 21:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

OnlyAFleshWound · 04/01/2022 21:39

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

I know, it wasn't a good moment 😬 nothing really shocks or surprises me any more though. And we're supposed to be the ones who lack tact and social finesse.
Outright lying isn't "lacking tact or social finesse". It's just trying to get away with dishonesty and misrepresentation by bullying and shouting.
BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 04/01/2022 21:39

I remembered what they said because of a very particular reason which I'm not prepared to go into.

OnlyAFleshWound · 04/01/2022 21:40

@hypocrisyhere (apt username!)

And btw absolutely no-one on that thread compared autism to Judaism or Islam FFS. What an abhorrent misrepresentation which again reveals your disdain for us.

Autism and MNHQ moderation