An algorithm to remove 'Karen'?

[BIWI]

It's a horrible misogynistic and ageist term.

I know you have an algorithm that deletes posts that mention certain other websites; is it possible to have an algorithm that at the very least deletes the word if it's being used? And then automatically posts to say that a word has been deleted because it breaks Talk Guidelines?

(I appreciate that if anyone is on the Baby Names board asking about 'Karen' that might be more difficult!)

The thing is, there are posters who don't seem to realise just what a horrible thing it is to say, but then the rest of their post is filled with people calling them on it, so they never really get an answer to their question.

Agreed!

@Aspiringmatriarch I think it is called "Karen" because of a woman called Karen Ridge here in Australia. She was filmed trying to remove an Aboriginal flag and the video with the hashtag "too strong for you Karen" went viral and from there it became "Karen" .

www.sbs.com.au/news/mildura-woman-attempts-to-tear-down-aboriginal-flag-in-viral-video/c8789dc8-1bf6-4151-b837-1efcfd93fefd

Before 2018, such women were known as "Permit Patty" www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/26/permit-patty-san-francisco-police-black-girl-selling-water

or they were also called Cornerstone Caroline as it is explained here www.businessinsider.com.au/cornerstore-caroline-911-police-call-black-child-sexual-assault-allegation-2018-10?r=US&IR=T. (the video of the store is shocking by the way www.facebook.com/jason.s.littlejohn/videos/2403476653000899/)

Once you understand the context, social and political , it is a facet of our society and deciding to unilaterally cancel what you don't like is wrong .

Some people feel entitled to tell others what to do / not do or how to run a website, and instead of requesting an auto-bot to fill their idea of right/wrong, people are free to correct the misuse of the term or report.

No, automatic removal of a word is a slippery slope & people will just get around it if the still want to use it

It seems that people can't even agree on what it means to be a Karen.

The thing I don't get about the use of "Karen" is that why is it ok to bully/ be derogatory to etc one type of person (e.g people called Karen) in response to another person(s) (one of who just happened to be called Karen)?

Surely it's just as bad? i.e.

A Karen is racist to XXX - not ok.

so XXX plus a lot of other people are nasty to people called Karen - seen to be ok by a lot of people.

Can someone explain that to me?

@karcheer

The thing I don't get about the use of "Karen" is that why is it ok to bully/ be derogatory to etc one type of person (e.g people called Karen) in response to another person(s) (one of who just happened to be called Karen)?

Surely it's just as bad? i.e.

A Karen is racist to XXX - not ok.

so XXX plus a lot of other people are nasty to people called Karen - seen to be ok by a lot of people.

Can someone explain that to me?

Racists should be shamed. What do you propose?

It's very telling that there are calls to remove the word "Karen" - a term that is usually applied to straight white cis women, ie the MN majority - but not the homophobic, racist and transphobic slurs used here on a regular basis.

Thankfully, MNHQ remove those when reported. Not sure why "Karen" deserves special treatment.

@peachgreen

It's very telling that there are calls to remove the word "Karen" - a term that is usually applied to straight white cis women, ie the MN majority - but not the homophobic, racist and transphobic slurs used here on a regular basis.

Thankfully, MNHQ remove those when reported. Not sure why "Karen" deserves special treatment.

Because insulting white women is the worst thing you can do, don't you know?

And is any of it really relevant to the point of the OP? Calling someone a Karen isn't nice and behaving in the way where someone feels the need to call you it (accurately) isn't nice.

But a lot of things fit that definition and we don't call for them to be auto-censored.

^This. I very much dislike the 'Karen' thing, but I doubt it comes under the category of things the Talk Guidelines would consider a personal attack. If it did, then an absolute shit-ton of other words or phrases would too. And why should 'Karen' be auto-censored when racist and ablist terms aren't? I think a previous poster had a point when they said it's because MNers feel especially aggrieved about it because many of them know tyey would be considered to identify with the stereotype it describes a lot more closely than they would with other, equally offensive or more offensive ones.

@Why2why I 100% agree, but I don't think calling them Karen really does that, and i don't think picking on someone else (Karen) helps. In a way the people who use Karen are bringing themselves down to the level of the "Karen". Call a racist a racist, don't insult another type of person who may or may not be racist.

@Buttons294749 Seems like you're trying to fit a definition to your agenda, no one is calling abuse victims Karnes.

@CorrBlimeyGG I'dsay they were pretty similar, Greta Thumberg is squarely in the Karen camp IMHO. Same as all these middle class,middle-age white people, pushing statues in to rivers etc.

@DateLoaf That's complete nonsense, there are lots of very forthright women who definitely arent Karen's (JK Rowling, Baroness Fox, Helen Mirren for example) who can make a calm rational well argued point.

Then you get the Karens (Carol Mcgriffin, Janet Street-Porter, Kate Smurthwaite etc) who are just perpetually offended but cant really articulate why so just shout and rant over people.

@karcheer It's not really bullying? Lots of people don't like Katie Hopkins because of the way she chooses to behave. Don't want to be called a Karen? Grow up and stop being ranty/offended at pointless stuff.

@peachgreen

It's very telling that there are calls to remove the word "Karen" - a term that is usually applied to straight white cis women, ie the MN majority - but not the homophobic, racist and transphobic slurs used here on a regular basis.

Thankfully, MNHQ remove those when reported. Not sure why "Karen" deserves special treatment.

I'd just like to point out that I (and I assume many others) absolutely do call out the racist, homophobic, sexist, ageist etc, stuff here whenever I see it.

The thing about 'Karen' - as you can see from many posts on this thread - is that it seems like a lot of posters don't understand how offensive it is, and it gets used quite frequently. Then, when they get called out on it, the threads spin off into discussions/accusations about how awful they are being to use it, and so the original question/issue/post is not dealt with.

This thread is verging on the batshit crazy.

I’m not really following CBUK?

Just because you declare it to be offensive does not mean it is offensive. However, racist behaviour, including those borne out of a sense of entitlement, is offensive.

I'd just like to point out that I (and I assume many others) absolutely do call out the racist, homophobic, sexist, ageist etc, stuff here whenever I see it.

@BIWI But you're not calling for any of that to be automatically removed. Just Karen.

@Mlhactive there are very few single words that are used that are specifically racist/homophobic/sexist etc. But Karen is.

I'd like all specific words to be removed - but we'd obviously have to agree which ones we're going to remove. I'd suggest that the 'n' word would be one, obviously, but that's very, very rarely (if ever) actually used. Any other single words, yes please.

[quote BIWI]@Mlhactive there are very few single words that are used that are specifically racist/homophobic/sexist etc. But Karen is.

I'd like all specific words to be removed - but we'd obviously have to agree which ones we're going to remove. I'd suggest that the 'n' word would be one, obviously, but that's very, very rarely (if ever) actually used. Any other single words, yes please.[/quote]
On a recent thread on here someone used racial slurs. The thread had Karen in the title and they said something along the lines of 'you wouldn't start a thread with [the n word] or [the p word] in the title'. Except they typed those words out in full. The post was eventually removed, but not automatically.

I've seen plenty of racist language on here. You might not see the worst of it because it gets deleted, but after it is deleted and not by "an algorithm" (that's not how algorithms with btw). Yet you're suggesting that Karen gets special treatment over actual racial slurs.

After its reported, even.

If you removed Karen, it would leave unnecessary holes in the current 'Vigil' thread - where it's referencing Suranne Jones' acting career and her part in Coronation Street. She's yet to arrive in Classic Corrie, but it would be shame to bugger up that thread with an autodelete.

Much better for MN to react promptly to reports of unacceptable language (whatever it might be) and delete

Yet you're suggesting that Karen gets special treatment over actual racial slurs

Absolutely not at all.

[quote BIWI]@Mlhactive there are very few single words that are used that are specifically racist/homophobic/sexist etc. But Karen is.

I'd like all specific words to be removed - but we'd obviously have to agree which ones we're going to remove. I'd suggest that the 'n' word would be one, obviously, but that's very, very rarely (if ever) actually used. Any other single words, yes please.[/quote]
Your concern is about single words rather than racial slurs, dig whistles, etc? You want to match word for word instead of really siting back and reflecting on why Karen is no equivalence to racial slurs (whether single words or phrases)? You want an algorithm to target a single word Karen but you don’t have the same energy to have started a request for an algorithm to tackle racial slurs?

@DateLoaf You calcimined the term Karen is a way of silencing women, I'd argue strongly that's not the case.

Its about poking fun at the perpetually peeved amongst us, those that watch faulty towers and get offended for example. The people we all know who cant visit a restaurant without having to "speak to the manager".

No one is calling forthright women with valid points Karen's.

@BIWI Who are we going to appoint as the word police? It's OK when you're censoring other peoples speech, what if I don't like what you say? Should I demand it is banned?

Offensive speech is entirely subjective and if they really want people seem to manage to take offence at pretty much anything these days.