An algorithm to remove 'Karen'?

[BIWI]

It's a horrible misogynistic and ageist term.

I know you have an algorithm that deletes posts that mention certain other websites; is it possible to have an algorithm that at the very least deletes the word if it's being used? And then automatically posts to say that a word has been deleted because it breaks Talk Guidelines?

(I appreciate that if anyone is on the Baby Names board asking about 'Karen' that might be more difficult!)

The thing is, there are posters who don't seem to realise just what a horrible thing it is to say, but then the rest of their post is filled with people calling them on it, so they never really get an answer to their question.

@BIWI Or we could stop banning stuff and people could worry about bigger things?

@Buttons294749 It's not misogynistic, its a term poking fun at a very specific group of perpetually offended social justice warriors.

It absolutely is misogynistic.

It is designed to silence women who are no longer "sexy" to men, middle aged women. It is designed to stop women from speaking up when they are abused or belittled. It is designed to make women afraid to use their voice so that men no longer need to take women's needs into account.

On a pro women site like MN it should be banned.

Disagree that cocklodger is ageist - plenty of posts here would show that it's behaviour that can be exhibited by men of all ages! (And I've also seen a female version used too)

The exact same argument can be made for Karen.

It's grown arms and legs since the 2017 memes and is used for different things sometimes, as internet meme type things do when they go 'mainstream', but it's "entitled and egotistical behaviour" that can be exhibited by women of all ages. And if you go on places where it is used a lot, like reddit, you'll find examples of men being called it, or the flavour of the month male equivalent.

But I'm really not advocating to algo-censor cocklodger, I'm arguing against ago-censoring anything.

And if algo-censoring has to become a thing because mods are being overrun or whatever, there are more than a few slurs / insults / attacks I'd put above Karen which by definition is intended to insult a privileged and entitled person?

Like don't you want to deal with slurs the less-privileged people face first? 😂

@Drgnbllx

I've seen worse words used on here than Karen (and cis for that matter). Fully typed out raviak slurs. They do usually get deleted, eventually, but not automatically.

Exactly. I’m very interested to see how mumsnet deals with this call for Karen to be considered a slur (no such thing in law) whereas racist goading are left for days before being deleted or never deleted.

Let’s see what bothers mumsnet HQ most; racist views or the use of Karen.

It is designed to silence women who are no longer "sexy" to men

I'm sure there are probably 20 more horrible and offensive slurs a misogynistic man could use to silence a woman he doesn't find sexy.

None of what you're saying is even close to the definition? Even the definitions that have "grown arms and legs"?

You think someone speaking up about abuse would be called a Karen? Would we not have seen a tonne of evidence of that after MeToo etc? It went viral around the same time "Karen" was gaining popularity?

NagelinaJoelle: This! And it’s happened for ever. A while back it was Sharons, then it was Kevins, these things happen.

Usually Karen = behaviour or attitude, right?

Nope. It has to do with sex. Go search for "Karen" on Reddit, where it originated, and then search for any other name you like, and find any name that is supposed to be raped, abused, suxually humiliated, taken down etc. just as much as "Karen". Please post back here with the name(s) and the link(s) proving your points.

@CBUK2K2 The term Karen is not used to describe social justice warriors. Quite the opposite!

@BIWI The other terms are all used as personal insults, so against site rules. If you want to get rid of one, why not all? I'm struggling to understand your selective stance.

@karenismyname

My name is Karen and it started out being a bit of fun on a couple of cat memes, then turned into something much more nasty and became ok for everyone to use it as a form of abuse.

People just think it funny, but how would they like it if it was their name always being used to make out you are a certain type of person?

and you can't comment or complain because they then point out that you are being a ........

It is time that the name was reclaimed for something good!

How do you think people called Wayne or Chantelle feel?

If you dislike it so much, why don’t you call yourself ‘Kaz’ or ‘Kay’ or some other nickname/ short version?

Yeah I think if anything should be auto deleted it should be actual racist terms.
Most recently these were written out uncensored on a thread discussing why ‘Karen’ is sooo mean

BluebellsRosesDaffodills: How do you think people called Wayne or Chantelle feel?

How do they feel about what? If you're making an allegation of equivalence, please post some evidence to show how your examples are equivalent. Thanks.

Usually Karen = behaviour or attitude, right?

Nope. It has to do with sex. Go search for "Karen" on Reddit, where it originated, and then search for any other name you like, and find any name that is supposed to be raped, abused, suxually humiliated, taken down etc. just as much as "Karen". Please post back here with the name(s) and the link(s) proving your points.

Usually Rat = pest or vermin, right?

Nope. It has to do with animals. Go search for "Rat" on google, and then search any other animal name you like, and find any animal name that is supposed to be exterminated and poisoned just as much as "Rat".

That's the logic of your argument applied to a different context in the hopes you see how little sense it makes and how little relevance it has.

Rat = vermin. Rats are also animals who display certain behaviours (although we use it to describe certain types of humans too). The majority of animals do not fall under the definition of vermin.

Karen = entitled. Karens are also women who display certain behaviours (although we use it to describe certain types of men too). The majority of women do not fall under the definition of Karen.

This is like trying to auto-ban the word idiot because it's synonymous with 'stupidity' under the guise of ableism. Can you use idiot to be ableist? Absolutely. Is that wrong? Yes. Can you also use idiot for anyone displaying idiotic behaviour without being ableist? Also yes.

If my dd's teacher called her an idiot because she's dyslexic, through no fault of her own - ableist.
If I call my dd an idiot because she got into a fight at school she could have walked away from - well... no. She's behaving like an idiot.

And as for the errand you've ordered people on... I'm not sure what you're hoping to prove with that? Other than there are vile humans on the internet? Incels exist on reddit? None of that is news nor does it justify auto-censoring it on Mumsnet.

I am seriously invested in arguing this point because MN auto-banning the word Karen above everything else is... well it's sending a message. A very clear message.

And LTB, the number of posters telling people to split up over minor spats is ridiculous

Usually Karen = behaviour or attitude, right?

Usually, yes, absolutely - the behaviour and attitude of the person using this term.
It's a bullying put-down of women, particularly ones who aren't young.

Yes it's difficult to read threads when posters keep using it and think there's nothing wrong with using it. Same with posts where people refer to having a 'Paddy', that is so offensive, maybe being Irish I take offence to it more as it's used alot on here and when I'm in the UK I hear it so much.

I suppose people may refer to 'having a paddy' (uncapitalised) from honest ignorance of its origins rather than malice. I notice similar with people using 'cretin' not knowing its meaning. But if they use it again after someone has told them it's offensive and why - well, then if they carry on then they're knowingly being racist or ableist.

I agree with this. I hate the term and my friend Karen finds it really upsetting when people use her name this way.

[quote CBUK2K2]@BIWI Or we could stop banning stuff and people could worry about bigger things?[/quote]
Yeah, it's crazy and ironic

People who think there are worse things on here are probably not called Karen?

Or we just have a sense of perspective and don't only care about white women.

@CatJumperTwat

Or we just have a sense of perspective and don't only care about white women.

You know it's possible to care about more than one thing at a time, right?

I don’t like ‘Karen’ - I have no doubt that it’s misogynistic.

But I don’t really see the difference between Karen, and the old MN favourite statement: “you’re being Wendied.”

What's wrong with calling someone a "Karen"?

I would really support this

I loathe the Karening of online discussion and it is inaccurate to say it relates solely to racism any more. It is shorthand for "women - know your place".