Request to remove the word 'debate' from ' Feminism: Sex & gender debate'

[Thelnebriati]

Can you please remove the word 'debate'? It doesn't add anything.

Especially if the trans widows threads are to remain on the board.

I agree. Discussion would be better if they need a word there

I agree

Agree

@SirSamuelVimes

I agree. Discussion would be better if they need a word there

Tbh I'm not sure even that is appropriate for a board which includes support threads.

Agree that it shouldn't be debate, and should be 'gender identity' not 'gender'.

A feminist thread about 'gender and sex' would suggest a debate about whether issues faced are about our sex or about gender. It's not what the board is about at all, it's about TRA.

Agree that it shouldn't be debate, and should be 'gender identity' not 'gender'.

Agree with both points.

I agree, 'debate' sets the wrong tone entirely.

Rowantrees
The FWR chat special rules were originally titled "sex and gender" and MNHQ agreed to change them to more accurately reflect the issues which are the balancing of sex and gender identity (not gender).

Those rules were actually originally titled 'guidelines for the discussion of trans rights', as if women discussing what womanhood is (in law and in life) don't have their own stake in that discussion. Following an OP pointing this out and several pages of others agreeing with the concern that this grossly misrepresented the position of feminists [i.e we are not non-trans people discussing 'trans rights', we are women discussion women's rights and they agreed to change it to 'discussions of sex and gender'.

I agree and would ask that "debate" is removed asap.

As pp have pointed out, theses threads are useful for practical support and advice, not as a space to debate.

I'm not correcting that post for the sake of it, btw, I just think that the fact that the default lens that MNHQ viewed the discussion under was 'trans rights', is relevant to how the discussion is framed as a 'debate' in the new section.

Agree.

I agree.
Surely sex and gender issues can be discussed, debated, chatted about, highlighted, focussed upon, supported and so forth.
The word debate is a value-laden term.

I agree

'Debate' and the trans widows thread being there, implies there's debate about their situation.

Which is gaslighty.

And is attracting harassment and "debate" around them.

I agree too, we don't have the word debate on any other board title, it's limiting and unnecessary.

Not a feminism board poster (you'll usually find me on Baby Sleep or Parenting boards. I agree. The topic is Feminism: Sex & Gender. There's no need for "Debate".

Agree. If you must hide it away in its own section, Feminism: Sex & Gender is a more appropriate title.

Those rules were actually originally titled 'guidelines for the discussion of trans rights', as if women discussing what womanhood is (in law and in life) don't have their own stake in that discussion. Following an OP pointing this out and several pages of others agreeing with the concern that this grossly misrepresented the position of feminists [i.e we are not non-trans people discussing 'trans rights', we are women discussion women's rights and they agreed to change it to 'discussions of sex and gender'.

Apologies, I had forgotten that unfortunate original framing.

The FWR rules are titled, "Mumsnet moderation principles for discussions around gender identity and sex"

Good point, Errol, I hadn't considered the intersection of the word 'discussion' with the transwidow support thread. Was just thinking of it being a better word than debate.

Agree.

Agree

Agree.

‘Debate’ sounds like people talking about a very two-sided, morally complex thing with loads of grey areas and all very abstracted. Actually these are quite simple questions- should women have rights to privacy, safety, dignity, or not? Should children be subject to experimental unproven ‘treatments’ that they can’t give proper consent to or not? Is being a woman a biological fact, or is it an emotional feeling? And so on.
These issues are also way too practical and real for ‘debate’ to feel appropriate if this topic is the only place we can talk about them.
We also use the threads for sharing resources, moral support, campaign updates, news. It’s not all people ‘debating’. There could be a subhead for debate, fine, if there’s demand for that.

And I do think there should always BE debate on this issue, that’s a given, but I’m not personally coming to post on this topic TO debate 99% of the time. Obviously other posters may feel differently.

I think it’s simpler to have FWR where gender and sex issues can still be discussed as before tbh ..

Evening! Just to let you know we've seen this and will discuss it with the team.

Adding my agreement too.

@EstherMumsnet, thank you! The intent here isn't to squash other discussions, but particularly to enable support group threads. I particupate frequently in the TransWidow support threads, and have found those discussions to be essential for my own healing from trauma. These threads are not for debates. Again, many thanks.