Dear black people of mumsnet

[PatricksRum]

Ideas for a black section on mumsnet.

Should we have separate sections i.e black hair and beauty, black parenting, black cooking or a general black section?

Link to previous

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4018383-black-section-on-mn

BIWI I inderstand by your reply that you don't think that there is any merit in me asking prople to be polite. I am so tired of peoples main way of being able to express themselves is through crude language, has the English language not got enough words in it already to help you express your displeasure without resorting to four letter words. By the way thanks for trying to educate me, but I did already know what RTFT means, and FFS too.
Unfortunately I came to this post very late on, and if I had tried to read all of it I would still be reading it. I did read quite a bit more after I had posted, and was very pleased to see that other people had the same viewpoint as me, that going forward from here (from the disgusting state the people of the world treat each other, and yes it does look like white people are the worst offenders) we need to desegrate, not segregate. I greatly desire harmony, repect, even love, between all of the human race, and that no decent person ever gets overlooked, down trodden, or made to feel worth any less than any other person.
However, as the OP, and some others wanted a seperate place for black people to be able to congregate, chat, and discuss matters more pertinent to her and other pp's lives, I am very happy that MN is making that happen.
Well done OP,
and BIWI, good luck with the vocabulary expansion

Op can I ask an irrelevant question?

Have seen your threads over last few days

....Are you not completely knackered and ready for a virtual holiday after all this

Good luck

@Bl3ss3dm0m
Why are you pleased to see others share your ignorant questions?

we need to desegrate, not segregate. I greatly desire harmony, repect, even love, between all of the human race, and that no decent person ever gets overlooked, down trodden, or made to feel worth any less than any other person.
Only white people can control this.

@MarthasGinYard

Op can I ask an irrelevant question?

Have seen your threads over last few days

....Are you not completely knackered and ready for a virtual holiday after all this

Good luck

Oh I need more than a virtual holiday.

I need a button I can press that just repeats "This is our space" "White people segregated us" Oh and "imagine being as privileged as you"

So maybe a one way ticket to bora bora and a parrot

PatricksRum,
Sorry what ignorant questions did I ask? I thought that the only question I asked was to have any of my words that were racist or insensitive pointed out to me, and I requested that that was done politely. So please can you be specific about which of my words, including my questions, were racist, and/or ignorant, how am I to learn, if you won't
tell me, but only complain about it? I genuinely want to do better.
OP, do you really believe that only white people can control how every human being is treated? If you are right, then I think it may be time for me to leave this Mortal coil, but how can I leave my children and grandchildren to try and fight that awful prediction on their own. I think your last six words to me are devastatingly sad, and I don't think that most white people have anywhere near enough knowledge, or for some, even the desire to do that. So I beg all BAME to help us, this is an enormous battle that I am very afraid that white people cannot win on their own. I don't suppose that I will see the day when the colour of someone's skin is completely irrelevant, but every fibre of my being hopes that my children will, and soon.

@Bl3ss3dm0m

PatricksRum, Sorry what ignorant questions did I ask? I thought that the only question I asked was to have any of my words that were racist or insensitive pointed out to me, and I requested that that was done politely. So please can you be specific about which of my words, including my questions, were racist, and/or ignorant, how am I to learn, if you won't tell me, but only complain about it? I genuinely want to do better. OP, do you really believe that only white people can control how every human being is treated? If you are right, then I think it may be time for me to leave this Mortal coil, but how can I leave my children and grandchildren to try and fight that awful prediction on their own. I think your last six words to me are devastatingly sad, and I don't think that most white people have anywhere near enough knowledge, or for some, even the desire to do that. So I beg all BAME to help us, this is an enormous battle that I am very afraid that white people cannot win on their own. I don't suppose that I will see the day when the colour of someone's skin is completely irrelevant, but every fibre of my being hopes that my children will, and soon.

Here is the ignorant question you asked:

My personal thoughts (which could well be wrong, and sorry if they upset anyone), are doesn't having different sections for different members of our community, just lead to more division?

No, sorry, you learn by researching yourself. This isn't school, I'm not a teacher and I'm not paid to teach you. There's so much resource out there, Google is your friend.

Why do you think it's up to us to teach you and your children how not to be racist?

Research yourself.

Will the decision regarding a black section on mumsnet will be made by a white majority.....

I think black political & legal sections would be a good idea.

Why do you think it's up to us to teach you and your children how not to be racist?

You know, I don’t think I’ve ever seen plead for the gay community to educate us on not being homophobic.

Or the Jewish community on not being anti-Semitic.

Regarding who can use the board I assume it’s self-selecting?

@PatricksRum I wish I could be as brave and forthright as you. (FYI I’m black)

Having separate sections on a forum that has separate sections for all sorts of people does not create division

By having a black section it treats black people like any other group of people, given a section if there is demand, that allows people with a common interest to congregate, allows people to talk without having to give a lot of racial and cultural background, gives people space to talk about things that lots of other people don't understand , allows their threads to remain active in that board where they can be swamped due to lower traffic in the general boards.

where they can ignore people who want educating because if you want educating create your own thread , don't derail another one. Why, when someone has a problem should they not get help , support, advice ? Why should instead they spend their time educating others ?

We already have LBGT, SN, scotsnet...why is it so much more divisive to have black? Each of those boards caters to a smaller group whose voices are easily lost in the predominantly ( and therefore implicitly white ) Boards . What is different about black that means it is divisive to have a separate board that is not divisive for the others?

Patrick, I do disagree slightly, I think you have a great role in educating people that can not be so easily achieved through google...seeing how differently people treat you in here is ...well I knew things could be bad, but this bad? But people can get educated through listening and thinking not asking to be spoon fed. Hey they could even RTFT before asking the same question again and again. But if they want education , they will soon have a great board to lurk on.

You know, I don’t think I’ve ever seen plead for the gay community to educate us on not being homophobic.

Or the Jewish community on not being anti-Semitic

True. Why are black people responsible for teaching people not to abuse them? The gaslighting and mindfuckery on this thread is something else.

I can understand people being sad that it's necessary, sad at the abuse that's being hurled out. I cant understand them reading this thread and still asking questions about its need and divisiveness

Patrick, I do disagree slightly, I think you have a great role in educating people that can not be so easily achieved through google...seeing how differently people treat you in here is ...well I knew things could be bad, but this bad?

Sorry, I totally disagree.

I've said many a time in previous threads...

It isn't our job to educate white people on how to not be racist. However, we still do it.
I've tirelessly responded to comment after comment, derail after derail, racism after racism. I don't hsve to, I shouldn't have to but I have done.
My black peers have created books, films, poems, protests, online forums to educate white people how to stop killing us. But coming onto my thread and asking for me to educate you (plural) and your children is taking the piss.

@Phoenix21

Why do you think it's up to us to teach you and your children how not to be racist?

You know, I don’t think I’ve ever seen plead for the gay community to educate us on not being homophobic.

Or the Jewish community on not being anti-Semitic.

Regarding who can use the board I assume it’s self-selecting?

@PatricksRum I wish I could be as brave and forthright as you. (FYI I’m black)

Exactly! I'm unsure why posters frequently ask who I will allow to use the boards. Well, I know why.

Thank you so much for your kind words. Really, really appreciate them all.

@midgebabe

I can understand people being sad that it's necessary, sad at the abuse that's being hurled out. I cant understand them reading this thread and still asking questions about its need and divisiveness

The problem is they're not reading the threads then come on to ask the same questions and then expect me to educate them. The answers are there. I've linked my previous threads which have tons of resource for what to watch/ read/ where to look to educate yourself.

I wonder how many of the naysayers were screaming for a Covid section or the Brexit section when they got fed up of seeing such threads in chat/AIBU?

I lurk on many topics that don’t strictly apply to me because I’m interested but don’t have much to add.

If I wanted to know something about the LGBT/Disabled/Scottish community I’d start a thread in those areas and I’d assume I’d get an answer or be gently corrected. (A specific question that is, not a wide-eyed how can I not offend you people question).

Why is the black section any different?

While I’m here, can I vote again for black perspectives? I don’t feel it’s divisive or othering.

The problem is they're not reading the threads then come on to ask the same questions and then expect me to educate them.

In some cases I don’t think the question is genuine but another form of othering. It’s ‘tell me what I need to know about you so YOU don’t feel offended by what I say’. Then your response is questioned.

Person: why can I not use the n word
Me: my ancestors were brutalised on the back of that word, it’s an abusive word, racist and offensive.
Person: but you black people use it so why can’t I, it’s just a word, One rule for all, I don’t get so easily offended, get that chip of your shoulder. Why are you so angry/aggressive?

If you don’t want to offend people, treat them as you would treat yourself.

Exactly Patrick ! Your patience is amazing

Patrick.. I think you misunderstand... when you raise a question in public and instead of getting answer you get crap, you are educating people...people who lurk and read and think wtf will be learning from the abuse you are getting. Every time you refuse to be silenced, you are educating people.

You can't educate the racists, the people who faux "want to be educated" but you will actually be helping others. You can't help it...by standing up for yourself you are educating people. By doing this, you are doing far more good than you realise...you think you are just getting a board for black chat, but at the same time you are doing more for the normalisation/ visibility/acceptance of that community.

Oh dear, sorry that sounds a bit gushing

Excellent post midgebabe. I've no doubt there are many lurkers reading, who have learned a lot from the posts on here. All having their did that just happen moments.

Patrick, I do disagree slightly, I think you have a great role in educating people that can not be so easily achieved through google...seeing how differently people treat you in here is ...well I knew things could be bad, but this bad

No. That time has past.

Its no more reasonable an ask than expecting women in general to constantly re-explain and "educate" men and MRAs who engage in sealinioning and engaging whataboutery.

If you are asking in good faith, there are a mountain of resources here (see numerous resource linked in these threads) and via Google.

There are threads here listing books on the subject. Although as with diet books, just reading them won't change a thing.

@Bl3ss3dm0m

BIWI I inderstand by your reply that you don't think that there is any merit in me asking prople to be polite. I am so tired of peoples main way of being able to express themselves is through crude language, has the English language not got enough words in it already to help you express your displeasure without resorting to four letter words. By the way thanks for trying to educate me, but I did already know what RTFT means, and FFS too. Unfortunately I came to this post very late on, and if I had tried to read all of it I would still be reading it. I did read quite a bit more after I had posted, and was very pleased to see that other people had the same viewpoint as me, that going forward from here (from the disgusting state the people of the world treat each other, and yes it does look like white people are the worst offenders) we need to desegrate, not segregate. I greatly desire harmony, repect, even love, between all of the human race, and that no decent person ever gets overlooked, down trodden, or made to feel worth any less than any other person. However, as the OP, and some others wanted a seperate place for black people to be able to congregate, chat, and discuss matters more pertinent to her and other pp's lives, I am very happy that MN is making that happen. Well done OP, and BIWI, good luck with the vocabulary expansion

You are funny! I have a considerable vocabulary, actually, in several different languages, including widely-used internet acronyms. So no need for the good luck wishes.

AS (by the way, that means Advanced Search) shows that you seem to have a habit of not bothering to read full threads, but just plop on to post your words of wisdom, which is poor forum etiquette.

On a long thread like this one, do you not think that someone might already have made your point(s), and that it/they might already have been answered?

Workplaces are now full of "diversity task forces" my DH is a member of about 5 groups at work "black dad's" "BAME Inclusion" etc - these aren't segregation - they aren't imposed by the "ruling white elite" they are safe spaces to share experiences and discuss bias in the workplace and how to overcome it.

I honestly don't get why LGBT, Scotney, Gransnet, Feminist or any of these boards aren't classed as segregation if you see a "black perspectives board" as segregation.

Why can't Scottish people just post in the main groups and educate us all on what it means to be Scottish? It's so selfish of them. 🙄🙄🙄

For the last time
I am not asking that people sidetrack themselves to educate people
I am saying that by posting on a forum like this, you are making available a type of resource that is helpful.
If you want to avoid helping people in that way you would need to stop posting

I am saying for the people who ask dumb questions, perhaps they could just shut up and read , because the answers are available right in front of their noses if they could be bothered

It's like on the feminist board, many people read that board for years and never say anything, bu5 by listening to the debates, seeing the abuse, they gain an understanding . Took me years to really understand the spousal veto question for example , but by reading people as they went through certain things I started to get the human picture behind the words , much more informative than reading the legal proposal and count proposals or leader pieces on the question

If people can't take an hour of their time to read a thread, they are not that bothered

Instead of dismissing it from the outset what about waiting to see how it pans out? If it’s not popular then it’ll end up like Dadsnet but if it is it could be brilliant and offer a lot of comfort to people.

Come on, we are supposed to support our fellow mums, our fellow women.

Let’s make everyone feel like they have a safe space.