Dear black people of mumsnet

[PatricksRum]

Ideas for a black section on mumsnet.

Should we have separate sections i.e black hair and beauty, black parenting, black cooking or a general black section?

Link to previous

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4018383-black-section-on-mn

I think your last six words to me are devastatingly sad, and I don't think that most white people have anywhere near enough knowledge, or for some, even the desire to do that
Why devastatingly sad? It's true, only white people can really "do" anything about it.

That's why I read, loads, on black history, and lurk cooking groups for example on FB lol - traditional cooking/recipes and there's sometimes chat about different things
(I don't join in, just learn, or occasionally like a yummy looking dish I've never heard of)
Just things I'd never come across as in my RL (very UK, white, non mixed area) to get different experiences
In the age of Google there's no excuse (not meant to be patronising) not everyone will want to though

Why can't Scottish people just post in the main groups and educate us all on what it means to be Scottish? It's so selfish of them

Can you imagine? It's exactly the same lol - I've got some questions not being Scottish, I just want to learn

Do all the men wear kilts?
What's haggis like?
Do you all shout och aye the noo
What do you mean that's offensive and stereotyping, only asking a question!

honestly don't get why LGBT, Scotney, Gransnet, Feminist or any of these boards aren't classed as segregation if you see a "black perspectives board" as segregation.
Because grans, feminists or Scottish people have not suffered segregation like black people have?

As i have said before, lots of white people have been taught that white people have to fight to stop segregation between black and white people , that we are all the same and that black people need help to stop segregation. So when they post saying they are concerned a black board will cause segregation it doesn't necessarily mean that they are racist or "wide eyed and innocent like ". Not everyone is up to speed on current issues, don't live in areas where there are black people and they genuinely don't get it. Or they simply have too much going on in their own lives to be able to engage fully with BLM (for example).

Yes and I understand white privilege, but saying to a white person who is struggling to feed her children (for example) that at least she has white privilege isn't going to feel helpful or relevant to her.

Lots of white people don't know the right way to talk about racism and don't know what words to use.

I keep coming back to this thread and although @PatricksRum you’ve been really clear about not wanting to take on the role of educating people I have found it to be a learning experience because it’s made me really reflect. I started a thread in AMA awhile ago about my experiences of counselling in the rape crisis centre. The fourth question in was somebody asking what about men who have been assaulted? And I guess although I can’t stand the term “whataboutery”, it really baffled me why someone would ask that on that particular thread.

What I’m trying to say is that it doesn’t make sense this constant questioning about why you’d want to have a black section on mumsnet. If the section doesn’t apply to you you just don’t read that scroll on!

It’s clear that the opposition, although framed around “ooh it would be segregating people”, really just shows how fragile some white people’s sense of self is.

I hope you get everything you want out of the new section it sounds like a great idea

Well actually we are fighting to prevent segrgation of the elderly as a covid response, and women did suffer something akin to segregation ...refused access to lots of parts of life ..and segregation based on sex is commonplace...female toilets , prisons, wards. It's accepted as a sensible solution to on going problems

it's not segregation, it is respecting difference and providing equal opportunities

I think having a BlackNet is a fantastic idea but don't see why it would need sub categories. Same as LGBT, ScotsNet etc.

What on earth is "black parenting"? So so patronising. Stop it!🤬

Wanting dedicated spaces for women or people with disabilities or scottish people or whatever to be able to discuss their related experiences is not seen as them wanting segregation. Nor should this.

I'm reminded of this:

@DazedWifelet

What on earth is "black parenting"? So so patronising. Stop it!🤬

Are you being sarcastic?

So when they post saying they are concerned a black board will cause segregation it doesn't necessarily mean that they are racist or "wide eyed and innocent like ". Not everyone is up to speed on current issues, don't live in areas where there are black people and they genuinely don't get it. Or they simply have too much going on in their own lives to be able to engage fully with BLM (for example).

So if this is you. You dont know many (or any) black people... You don't understand the issues.... Why would you post on a thread started by a black woman, asking for space to speak to other black women and tell her she shouldn't do this! It won't affect you one bit!!!! Why do people think they have the right to engage on topics they admit they know zero about, but tell those involved they can't do it.

@doadeer

So when they post saying they are concerned a black board will cause segregation it doesn't necessarily mean that they are racist or "wide eyed and innocent like ". Not everyone is up to speed on current issues, don't live in areas where there are black people and they genuinely don't get it. Or they simply have too much going on in their own lives to be able to engage fully with BLM (for example).

So if this is you. You dont know many (or any) black people... You don't understand the issues.... Why would you post on a thread started by a black woman, asking for space to speak to other black women and tell her she shouldn't do this! It won't affect you one bit!!!! Why do people think they have the right to engage on topics they admit they know zero about, but tell those involved they can't do it.

It isn't me. I have nothing against a space for black women whatsoever.

I was trying to explain something, but it seems like you interpreted what I said in a way that wasn't what I intended.

I was trying to explain something

Oh my.

It isn't me. I have nothing against a space for black women whatsoever

I don;t think the pp was saying it was necessarily you, just a general you if you fit into the category of people you were talking about.

I was trying to explain something, but it seems like you interpreted what I said in a way that wasn't what I intended.

This is not the time or place for the conversation you are trying to have. We do not need to understand why people are coming to this thread and opposing the board. We do not have to try to understand what is behind racist comments and thoughts. Knowing why someone beat you doesn't change that you have been abused. It's of literally no hope.

Please can we continue to give suggestions for the new board. Also please can those with concerns email MNHQ.

Also if you think you have something profound to say make sure you have RTFT first.

@PatricksRum @Dastardlythefriendlymutt I decided to go off and find some examples of things we can look forward to never seeing again on the new boards...

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3342628-afro-black-hair-help?pg=1
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am]]iibeingunreasonable/3342628-afro-black-hair

Basically says "don't expect help here"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/multicultural_families/1218500-Barber-said-he-doesnt-do-afro-hair-as-its-too-hard-How-hard-is-a-grade-2-all-over

"No of course it wasn't racist"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/3752250-Black-Parents-with-DC-in-independent-Schools-in-London

"Who on earth thinks about diversity when sending their black child to school?! Shame on you"

Who knows... maybe black people will actually join the site in future!

I honestly don't think that many of the posts by the OP are doing her cause any favours.

Lots of people including me (for the avoidance of doubt) support the idea, but cannot support the overtly offensive way other posters are being spoken to.

The OP may wish her ethnicity to be known, but not every poster will feel the same way ( for various very valid reasons) so asking people 'are you black' with the undertone being that otherwise they are not entitled to post, is counterproductive, offensive and not the way forward.

That afro thread
Google may be more helpful on this subject than Mumsnet

That doesn't sit comfortably with me, don't know why - kind of seems like people automatically default to white hair standards like mine (eg naturally dark blonde, straight) and assume no black people use MN?
So wouldn't it make sense to have a place people can ask where there's more likely to be people who understand?

With all due respect if your support is so easily withdrawn because OP and posters are not "polite enough" while dealing with the microaggressions, whataboutery and blatant racism on this and the other thread, I really doubt we had your support to begin with, and that's okay. Please feel free to vent to MN or start a new thread, but can we now keep this thread focused on suggestions going forward.

(Asking people to be more polite is when asking is no different to talking a woman to smile or be nice or saying she is aggressive or arrogant when she is assertive).

@amemebyanyothername literal eye roll at those threads. I can't believe people honestly say these things

@Venicelover

I honestly don't think that many of the posts by the OP are doing her cause any favours.

Lots of people including me (for the avoidance of doubt) support the idea, but cannot support the overtly offensive way other posters are being spoken to.

The OP may wish her ethnicity to be known, but not every poster will feel the same way ( for various very valid reasons) so asking people 'are you black' with the undertone being that otherwise they are not entitled to post, is counterproductive, offensive and not the way forward.

Offensive ? I have also see the word aggressive used below

I see the Op as fed up and assertive?

Those terms are subjective , and tend to be applied more to some groups of people than others.

THAT AFRO THREAD!!!! beautifully illustrated what would happen if people posted in the S&B thread with just the caveat I have 4a/tb/4c hair as many posters said up thread in protest to a hair subtopic on the Black board.

"Google may be more helpful on this subject than Mumsnet"

@Quaagars

That afro thread Google may be more helpful on this subject than Mumsnet

That doesn't sit comfortably with me, don't know why - kind of seems like people automatically default to white hair standards like mine (eg naturally dark blonde, straight) and assume no black people use MN?
So wouldn't it make sense to have a place people can ask where there's more likely to be people who understand?

Yup. In future I hope people find Mumsnet after googling things like this, instead of being told to Google when asking Mumsnet. I'm excited that it could be a rich resource.

In fact, this is the first thing that comes to mind often when I think about asking certain questions...

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt

With all due respect if your support is so easily withdrawn because OP and posters are not "polite enough" while dealing with the microaggressions, whataboutery and blatant racism on this and the other thread, I really doubt we had your support to begin with, and that's okay. Please feel free to vent to MN or start a new thread, but can we now keep this thread focused on suggestions going forward.

(Asking people to be more polite is when asking is no different to talking a woman to smile or be nice or saying she is aggressive or arrogant when she is assertive).

@amemebyanyothername literal eye roll at those threads. I can't believe people honestly say these things

There is a difference between assertiveness and aggression (which btw is not the term I used) I said 'offensive; and/or rude.

The OP is not being assertive, in my opinion.

@Venicelover

I honestly don't think that many of the posts by the OP are doing her cause any favours.

Lots of people including me (for the avoidance of doubt) support the idea, but cannot support the overtly offensive way other posters are being spoken to.

The OP may wish her ethnicity to be known, but not every poster will feel the same way ( for various very valid reasons) so asking people 'are you black' with the undertone being that otherwise they are not entitled to post, is counterproductive, offensive and not the way forward.

Stop coming back to the thread if you find her so offensive. Like a month to the flame.

Why should the OP be fake or sickly sweet to win favour and agreement of people that have zero interest in what’s she has asked for and is receiving.

It’s utterly acceptable for the OP to not give a flying fuck what white people think as it doesn’t concern them. It’s not about you