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Effective measures against threads that encourage racism and misogyny

372 replies

rockingchaircandle · 07/06/2020 09:45

I posted yesterday about the series of threads on Meghan Markle. In emails MN have acknowledged that they struggle with the subtle and not-so-subtle racism these threads bring.

The post led to discussions where many women, especially women of colour, explained how these threads made them feel.

Posters who have formed a clique around anti-Meghan threads, used another thread to organised the spamming of the thread to derail it. MN have also said they are going to take a longer, overall look at the posters who we feel are not here with good intentions. However the entire thread was deleted, as the posters intended and the debate was shut down, and those voices lost.

Unfortunately the thread degenerated to the point it was no longer salvageable, and so we had no option but to delete it. We want to allow free discussion as much as possible, especially on such an important topic as anti-racism, but sometimes when we have to make lots of deletions, threads end up with so many holes that it makes no sense to keep them up. We hope you understand where we're coming from. The derailing posts were obvious - they were either personal attacks or reference to TV shows etc. They could have deleted them. There are now another 2 threads up about Meghan Markle.

So, I know this will probably get deleted, but to the people who posted yesterday I just wanted a message to show that not everyone agrees with this. I'm sorry, MN have heard - I hope they will do something more effective if they truly think anti-racism is an important topic.

OP posts:
rockingchaircandle · 08/06/2020 13:46

@Cheetoz

Pointing out your behaviour is bullying you?

You do enjoy throwing strong labels around.

Posters have left the site because of you, posters do not post because of you, posters don’t start threads because of you. Now someone is impersonating you and you’ve mentioned on the other thread about upsetting a poster during a cancer scare.

If you’re saying you’re not a bully then you sure do a very good impersonation of one.

Does this not suggest that you’re not going about things in the right way? That there might be a more productive and positive way to achieve your stated aims regarding MN moderation?

Yes, the cancer allegation made me really angry. I think it was designed to. My mum died of cancer, it's really not something I would joke about.

I have the post saved, it's very clear I didn't joke about that person(it was a Mean Girls reference and even posters at the time acknowledged it had nothing to do with cancer). I think it was a way of attention seeking. That poster is now on another site giving out about me, telling the same lies. At the point where it briefly crossed my mind to go and join that site to prove she's lying made me realise it is a level of crazy I don't want to join. All my contributions are searchable on here, I have not bullied anyone.

@MNHQ this does seem like a prolonged attack from @Cheetoz now, who has just popped up today to make these allegations.

OP posts:
Cheetoz · 08/06/2020 13:48

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rockingchaircandle · 08/06/2020 13:56

The cancer reference is still there. There are more than enough threads to see how people react if they are disagreed with. I searched your name to see if you targetted other people with rumours without evidence and nothing came up. So either you are new or you have name changed for this morning's assault. There is zero evidence that I have bullied or derailed anything because it's shorthand for 'disagree with'.

OP posts:
jeffgoldblumlovespenguins · 08/06/2020 13:56

Cheetos is not new I've seen her post before.

jeffgoldblumlovespenguins · 08/06/2020 13:57

Sorry cross post

TheSan · 08/06/2020 13:57

@rockingchaircandle , It would be totally understandable if you did want to step away for a bit. It makes me so uncomfortable & it’s worrying to know there are actually people organising out there to target you.

@ChocolatelyAsFuck mentioned the previous doxxing and abuse of BAME posters and that’s really scary. I hope mumsnet will address all the legitimate questioned asked on this thread. Just saw their email admitting that indeed there has been a problem with tackling racism on some MM threads and they are working on this.

Roussette · 08/06/2020 13:59

Cheetoz
Your post of 13.38 is out of order. You are personally attacking Rocking

Posters have left the site because of you, posters do not post because of you, posters don’t start threads because of you
I've been here a long time, and on and off the H&M threads since MM came on the scene and that is just not the case.

Yes, it has got heated in these last few days but to insinuate that a load of posters have left because of Rocking, to my mind is just not true.
They are all over on poundland mumsnet and seem quite happy there. And were going anyway long before this blew up on Saturday. Flitting between the two sites and slagging off what goes on here is below the belt AFAIC. As is boasting about setting up ten different accounts to come on here like it's a badge of honour ASBO is pretty pathetic too.

Cheetoz · 08/06/2020 14:01

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CallmeAngelina · 08/06/2020 14:04

What the hell is "poundland mumsnet?"

Roussette · 08/06/2020 14:05

It's another forum.

user50000000 · 08/06/2020 14:06

Keep going rocking. Hat's off to you and if your posts have driven the Meghan bashers off to another site, that's a bonus.

TheSan · 08/06/2020 14:08

Must admit I did search for Poundland mumsnet/ cheap mumsnet😂😂. Maybe it’s a good thing I didn’t find it

SetPhasersTaeMalkie · 08/06/2020 14:09

@TheSan

Must admit I did search for Poundland mumsnet/ cheap mumsnet😂😂. Maybe it’s a good thing I didn’t find it
It's an eye opener that's for sure. 😂
Cheetoz · 08/06/2020 14:11

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Roussette · 08/06/2020 14:13

Do you give exit interviews for when posters leave Mumsnet Cheetoz?

How do you know?

CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate · 08/06/2020 14:14

That Spectator article sums up the current situation we're in with regards to debate really well.

Stop it. You have provided no evidence. Disagreeing is not bullying.

'Dear woman of colour, although you are a woman of colour, your views and opinions are not applicable or acceptable. Please shut up and get back in your place.'

You see?

It's fine. You have replied as expected. I note this often, that those who are supposedly most in support of 'black people' and stridently 'anti-racist' truly do not see you as a real individual with equal rights of opinion. You are a group to them.

It reminds me of a time I was working close to the National Portrait Gallery in Tralfagar Square and a white woman who thought she meant well, told me I should 'go in and have a look if I've not been there before' (I wasn't given a chance to tell her I had been there before or not, she wasn't actually truly interested in me, she was interested in feeling better supporting her perceived view of my oppression and using me to bouy herself up) because 'there was a portrait of Stormzy in there and wasn't it so great?? They should have more portraits of prominent black people in, there's a dearth isn't there? It must be hard. It's so important, I must be pleased, it will "encourage more black people to go into the Gallery", and she has his album etc'

She was visibly taken aback when I told her I had 'no desire to see a portrait of Stormzy, as I wasn't a big fan or cared much for the mysogynistic content of his lyrics, nor did I think he was a great role model for black men and furthermore, I always go into the main gallery on every lunch break as I love the Beheading of Lady Jane Grey and St Sebastian. My parents always took me to see them. I could see her visibly struggling to reconfigure me into her mental representation of what a black woman is vs the actual one standing in front of her as a unique person. The conversation pettered out very fast as she didn't get the confirmatory responses she wanted.

Such individuals see you as a set of pre-determined beliefs and sterotypes and should you not conform to those sterotypical beliefs or start giving some contrary opinion to the one expected and do not conform to the idea in their heads of what you are (which is ultimately just a banded colour code) you are dismissed. They have low expectations of you whilst ostensibly supporting your rights.

I give MM the right to be a nice person or a bad one. Capable of being a great mother or a bad one, a great wife or a bad one, a cow or a saint. A devil or an Angel. I personally don't perceive her positively, but I don't see her colour as the most important factor of her being and see her as a fully bodied person not some objectified token of colour who should not be criticised because of it.

You are clearly a great M fan, (and good for you) who thought so little of the intelligence of WOC, that you thought you had a winning formula for disrupting the threads and shuting down criticism of MM

You'd cite 'racism' every 5 minutes and every WOC on the thread would agree and be outraged and support you, because we all think the same and are thus easily manipulated and you'd achieve shutting down the debate.

Except it wasn't so easy, so now you thought you'd start up a thead directed to MNHQ and try it that way.

TheNavigator · 08/06/2020 14:14

@rockingchaircandle you have been a voice of sanity on some really unpleasant threads and I admire your persistence. I am sorry you are getting such a hard time. If you have driven subtle and not so subtle racists off Mumsnet, I can only see that as a good thing. Keep strong.

BTW - I remember the 'you made fun of me when I had a cancer scare' debacle and it was patently nonsense on stilts. You made a well know pop culture reference to Mean Girls 'On Wednesdays we wear pink'. To attempt to stretch that to be in any way about cancer beggars credulity.

Cheetoz · 08/06/2020 14:16

How are you so sure that it’s untrue?

Have you spoken to them?

Cheetoz · 08/06/2020 14:16

That was @Roussette

SetPhasersTaeMalkie · 08/06/2020 14:18

[quote TheNavigator]**@rockingchaircandle you have been a voice of sanity on some really unpleasant threads and I admire your persistence. I am sorry you are getting such a hard time. If you have driven subtle and not so subtle racists off Mumsnet, I can only see that as a good thing. Keep strong.

BTW - I remember the 'you made fun of me when I had a cancer scare' debacle and it was patently nonsense on stilts. You made a well know pop culture reference to Mean Girls 'On Wednesdays we wear pink'. To attempt to stretch that to be in any way about cancer beggars credulity.[/quote]
Well said. I agree with you on both points. I hope you're okay @rockingchaircandle.

rockingchaircandle · 08/06/2020 14:18

@CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate That anecdote has nothing to do with me. I have addressed all your points on here. The point of the thread is very clear in the OP.

OP posts:
Roussette · 08/06/2020 14:19

I asked you if you had?

Have you personally spoken to the huge numbers you referred to and they said that they were leaving because of rocking. Are you sure they're just not liking being challenged? Or they were going to PMN anyway?

It's very easy to blame someone when you're not planning on staying somewhere anyway.

SetPhasersTaeMalkie · 08/06/2020 14:19

@Cheetoz

How are you so sure that it’s untrue?

Have you spoken to them?

Nobody knows, that's the point.
Roussette · 08/06/2020 14:21

Thank you set, exactly. Which is why I asked if Cheetoz was doing exit interviews for those that leave MN.

Cheetoz · 08/06/2020 14:22

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