Mumsnet moderation - response to yesterday's feedback

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,

I’ve had lots of contact about about yesterday’s thread which has now maxed out so thought I’d put a response here.

First of all our guidelines absolutely do allow people to discuss biology and science. And we absolutely see why some of Penny Mordaunt’s words yesterday would raise concerns amongst those with a gender critical POV - so maybe it wasn’t, in retrospect, the best moment to make a point. Nonetheless we do believe that as a rule Spartacus-type threads are not conducive to a constructive debate and that trans people would be likely to feel attacked and/or excluded by them.

To state the obvious and as I’ve said before, this is an extremely polarised debate in which even the most basic terms are disputed, so if we’re going to have it here we’re in danger of being attacked from all sides (which we are in actual fact). Nonetheless, we think it’s important, so we’ll keep at it and we’ll keep trying to moderate it to make it as open and civil as we possibly can.

You should also know that I’m due to meet soon with Penny Mordaunt to discuss “any ideas you may have on the women and equalities agenda’' and I will of course reflect the strong opinion of many Mumsnetters wrt to this issue and ask her to do a webchat too.

Thanks, as ever, for your input.

Stands to applaud PsychoLibrarian.

If you're just skimming this thread, you really should read this comment, @JustineMumsnet.

It is telling that this thread was originally pinned to the top of the feminist chat section but it is only accessible via active and it’s topic.

The thread has obviously not gone down as intended and they’re just hoping to drop it off the radar.

It is telling that this thread was originally pinned to the top of the feminist chat section but it is only accessible via active and it’s topic.

Isn’t it?

But it’s maybe bringing the conversation to a whole bunch of people who wouldn’t normally go near Feminist Chat. 😀

Good plan . We could just keep it bumping around to raise awareness of the lack of response from MNHQ on a topic they created and the lack of response with regards to the valid concerns raised here.

We are not going away. Have they not learned that yet? We’re stubborn as fuck.

Fairplay for Women are attempting to find out the effects of gender self-id on single sex wards:
Dr Nicola Williams comments on the thread below:
"Dr Paul Lelliott of @CareQualityComm says "900 sexual incidents, including assault and harassment, recorded on mental health wards in just three months. Some of the incidents have taken place on same sex wards
They have refused FOI requests to tell us more."

www.cqc.org.uk/news/stories/sexual-safety-mental-health-wards

Penny Mordant really needs as priority to ask her colleagues Jeremy Hunt and Jackie Doyle-Price MP,
The Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Mental Health and Inequalities) to look into this thread please:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3297578-NHS-confuse-sex-and-gender-on-advice-about-The-Mental-Health-Act

I am currently in hospital I asked the women on my ward how they would feel about mixed wards. The response was vehement and unanimous. Everyone was hotly opposed.

"Dr Paul Lelliott of CareQualityComm says "900 sexual incidents, including assault and harassment, recorded on mental health wards in just three months.

FUCKING HELL!

Stands to applaud PsychoLibrarian.

Me too.

It is telling that this thread was originally pinned to the top of the feminist chat section but it is only accessible via active and it’s topic.

The issues raised are not specific to feminists, 'so called feminists' or middle-aged, middle-classed white women. They affect everyone in society.

That’s true but that’s where it was to start off with and it’s not pinned there now. That’s how I found it

GoldenBuns and PsychoLibrarian - brilliant posts. Thank you.

Those stats re sexual assaults on psychiatric wards are horrifying. I wonder what the equivalent stats are like for female prisons??

MnerXX

Yes, I wonder how many members of Mumsnet will be aware of it here & the points raised in the thread.

Hello it's Pratchet. I've changed my name.

Great new name!!

Thank you! And I won't get confused with Terry any more!

Mimmymam is a bit like a name I've come across on Twitter. But I have a feeling the posts from this version of the name will be rather more to my taste.

Hello Scarlet. I'm back. I was cross so I did that. There was a lot of gloating around from TRA, so I did a childish thing, because we can't express our anger by telling people to go fuck themselves any more. I really would if I could.

Pratchet Welcome back. I changed my name for a few hours too after outing myself a little bit in another place but decided to go back.

I'm sure we can find ways to tell people to go fuck themselves when necessary without getting suppressed. And reporting the really vile tweeters on Twitter does work, albeit slowly and probably only temporarily.

MN were unbelievably quick this morning. Reported, deleted and banned for goadiness in under an hour. I was very impressed.

Thank Frankie person, did you see? Even making TRA look bad but it was very offensive stuff so I'm glad they've gone.

No, missed that. Haven't been around here so much in the last few days.

This morning I went to report someone on Twitter I'd never heard of before and found that they already had me blocked. It's a strange world over there.

Probably a block list, Scarlet.

We are not going away. Have they not learned that yet? We’re stubborn as fuck.

They really need to get this into their heads. We're not ever going to shut up.

Why should Justine have to adopt your views though? You don't speak for all women and clearly your views don't align with hers (to the extent that you would like it to). Nevertheless you have been enabled to speak more freely on mumsnet than any other public forum (as far as I'm aware) despite a considerable amount of flack being taken for this by Justine.

You don't speak for all women. You can quote a poll if you like but it's clear that your speech, your methods, your emotional tone - all of this is not representative of all women. There is no need for you to represent all women and not a shred of proof that Justine intends to under-represent your views. Women can represent themselves and say what they personally believe because we aren't a glob of clone-like voices - there will be a diversity of opinions and every woman has the right to be wherever they like on that spectrum, including Justine. You do not have the political corner or the media corner.

Of course Justine is being asked for her views. Like any other woman, she can give them. If you would like to also be asked for your views, put yourselves in a position where you will be asked for them. Justine has no obligation to be a mouthpiece for you. She has already done a great deal (it would never be enough for you) to give you a voice here when your words often amount to hate speech.

Your response has been to suggest she and others are against women and would like to kill you all on a hill - even crucify you in some particularly self-absorbed orgies of victim identification. Justine (and all others at mumsnet) are judged harshly for making the most personal, basic, truthful observation that no one with a brain cell (of any gender) could disagree with (that a woman's life would have been harder had she been trans).

I don't know what you think other women owe you but we don't. We're allowed to say what we like. It seems impossible for you to believe that other women are not getting at you (or wishing you harm) just because they care about other people caught up in this issue and do not simply lie down and add another voice to your echo chamber. We are all thinking beings with the ability to choose. Shout if you must but don't try to drown out others or pretend you have a right to choose their words. I know many of you disagree but I've also seen my view put forward before - you don't speak for everyone.