New sub-section please?

[RatRolyPoly]

Hello MNHQ, may I gently put forward the idea of a new Libfem sub-section please? I don't know if the idea has been floated before so I'm not sure what appetite there would be for it, if any at all, but in the interests of feminism being accessible to all women and for the benefit of all women I'd like to raise my hand in favour.

By "all women" I primarily mean women such as myself, who would appreciate a section on Mumsnet to discuss feminist and women's issues without what is serving to all intents and purposes as "entry criteria" on the existing board; that being the obligation to deny the legally recognised genders of a group of individuals - contrary to the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

This situation, I believe, has become the case due to prevalence of a certain brand of feminism having become overrepresented on this board, but serves the purpose of excluding and silencing the valid views of many women and feminists.

I'm not attempting in any way to discredit or silence the position of this current majority, merely to suggest that a specific board is needed to enable the voices of liberal feminists to be heard; not least by each other, in order to discuss the ongoing struggles faced by women in today's society.

Cheers.

I haven't seen anyone for a long time called "the wrong type of feminist" on here. Though I stand by my "you can't be a feminist if you put men's rights ahead of women's rights, as I listed at 10:30 this morning.

I know back in the day the boards were a bit scary, but it seems a lot more welcoming now. The only thing that is shouted down (rightly imo) is those who want to centre trans rights at the very centre of their feminism, above women's rights.

I wouldn't mind a specific definition of the line we are meant to draw between radical feminists and liberal feminists - Surely the difference (nowadays) can't be that liberal feminists centre transwomen, and radical feminists don't?

I wouldn't, currently, call myself either; isn't it possible to just stick up for women? Full stop.
'

I just define as feminist, Maryz...

Thought you flounced Maryz?

I'm just reading that Libfems thread now... @MNHQ I rest my case.

Hahaha, Bertrand I see you posted on it:

"I really would like one of the liberal feminists on here to talk about their position on porn and prostitution."

...didn't you post on this thread only yesterday "Any thread about porn, for example, or prostration is dominated by liberal feminist views.."

Yeah, so that's why we need a Libfem section!

Feminist here as well

Still a bit confused about different 'types' of feminist

I think most people agree with one type on one subject and then another type with another subject

Bertrand, oh my god, you really egged it too! Did you forget this??

And the huge elephant in the room that even the outspoken Mumsnet liberal feminists won't address-prostitution and porn.

...I'm only on page 2...

I didn't flounce (you do like a PA dig, don't you?), I decided that there was little point in talking to you since you either pretend you are on the fence, or leave mid discussion and then return pretending to have not seen any questions directed at you.

I joined back in as the conversation had moved on.

But now you're back, I'll wander off elsewhere and leave you to pretend you give a shit about women. Unless of course you want to go back up and say which of my statements at 10:32 you don't agree with. You could also (if you were genuinely interested) return to the sport thread and answer questions addressed to you there.

I was teasing Maryz, come on, can't a girl poke fun?

This thread is not asking you or anyone else to be nice Bert. It is not asking anyone to change what and how they post. It's requesting a new sub-section.

So feminism chat

And libfem chat

And then rad fem chat

And intersectional fem chat

Right ive run out of 'fems'

Rufustherenegadereindeer1, I think someone gave the definition of liberal feminism up thread. BTW I'm not sure I would define all the FWR regulars as Radical. The rad fems I know IRL are lovely and tend not to be unpleasant about other feminists. After all every woman has her part to play. And they recognise that Liberal Feminism can be the gateway drug to Radical Feminism.

Gosh theres lots

Eco fem

Cultural fem

Marxist fem

dione

Bloody hell its confusing...i did one of those test things, didnt help

Just looked back at your 10:32 post Maryz, wasn't phrased as a question, just a statement of your opinion. Which I acknowledged. Whether or not we agree on your points makes rather no odds to the question of a new subsection, no? And the sport thread, dunno, we'll see what time allows but I may have to let that one roll for now.

Just the one subsection Rufus; no-one else has asked for one as far as I know. I was thinking of alternative names such as "Everyday feminism" whilst driving; is it the word "liberal" which causes concern?

Everyday feminism might be a good idea.

Don't forget womanism, anarchafeminism

Also sorry Bertrand, didn't mean to crow.

The question raised, as you well know, was "which of those statements do you not agree with". We were, at the time, asking when it would be ok to say someone wasn't a feminist. I gave some examples.

Are you looking for a subsection where people aren't allowed to make such statements? Or where so-called radical feminists aren't allowed to disagree? Or where only one sort of "feminism" and views surrounding that type are to be aired?

If so, I'd say it's a very bad idea.

If not, what's the point in a separate section? I don't see how it could work.

It seems you don't want to answer any questions, so a subsection where people like you could make statements, refuse to discuss or back up those statements and object to anyone challenging them would also be very bad idea.

"

Not concern as such

But yeah

A more general name would be better

But how would everyday feminism differ from chat though

Not trying to be difficult...just cant see how it would work or more specifically how we would differentiate between the two

That was a really interesting thread, thanks for linking it.

I'm slightly clearer now on what liberal feminism actually means.

We seem to have gone around in circles which I'm simply not interested in doing. You've made your objection known. Not sure I could do more to counter it that I already have in my many lengthy posts, and I'm just not going to rehash every point and analogy ad infinitum because that simply won't convince you. You don't want to be convinced. Fine.

SuperLoud can I ask what it is you prefer about "Everyday feminism"?

Maryz the top of that last post was for you!

Oh good cos i was really confused

Again!!

Arrgh posted too soon.

However, now I also have socialist feminism to consider (though I'm not sure how that works), so I'm no clearer as to what particular type of feminist I am!

I guess it would differ Rufus in that there would be no expectation that the people posting there would actually "qualify" as feminists in anyone else's book. So no "pulling up your big girl pants", no "if you don't care about x/y/z you're not a feminist" just "hey, let's chat about that pay gap" for someone who - for whatever reason (and we've seen there are a few...) - doesn't want to post it on the main board. And the people hanging out there - for the most part I guess - won't be expecting a certain kind of "vetted" company.

Does that make sense?

There's socialist feminism, AllMy? Count me in!!