New sub-section please?

[RatRolyPoly]

Hello MNHQ, may I gently put forward the idea of a new Libfem sub-section please? I don't know if the idea has been floated before so I'm not sure what appetite there would be for it, if any at all, but in the interests of feminism being accessible to all women and for the benefit of all women I'd like to raise my hand in favour.

By "all women" I primarily mean women such as myself, who would appreciate a section on Mumsnet to discuss feminist and women's issues without what is serving to all intents and purposes as "entry criteria" on the existing board; that being the obligation to deny the legally recognised genders of a group of individuals - contrary to the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

This situation, I believe, has become the case due to prevalence of a certain brand of feminism having become overrepresented on this board, but serves the purpose of excluding and silencing the valid views of many women and feminists.

I'm not attempting in any way to discredit or silence the position of this current majority, merely to suggest that a specific board is needed to enable the voices of liberal feminists to be heard; not least by each other, in order to discuss the ongoing struggles faced by women in today's society.

Cheers.

big girl pants = bloomers = Amelia Bloomer = totally amazing advocate of dress reform - there you go - a thread nobody could argue with, surely.

Honestly I can see on my word doc the first few threads were dungarees, chick lit etc. No pressure at all to be the next Angela Davis. Wait - I'll start one... keep an eye out.

Soup, post something like a "want to learn more about feminism" and we can just jump in and chat, if you want? I'm far from an expert myself, just a crotchety opinionated women

I will regardless Bertrand, defo, just juggling with both hands atm. Keep popping back in to live up to my responsibility as the OP.

Soup, you could also post in the pub, which is quite chatty:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3153830-Bluestocking-lock-in?pg=5

I have started a thread.... eek!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3160880-How-to-be-a-Feminist

Thank you all. I see I should just put some big girl pants on and plough in.

Maybe looking at it this way wil help. Everyone started off somewhere. Before mumsnet I didn't even know I was a feminist at all. I felt quite intimidated posting in FWR for the first time, but the women were patient and did explain a lot to me. I felt intimidated when I posted my first ever thread on AIBU to (and got a whole bunch of YABU with very forceful views, which was a bit scary at the time)

I still don't 'get it' a lot of the time, but you don't HAVE to totally get 'it' anyway. Just state your own views, and listen to others. I found people challenging my views to be very informative too actually.

If you wanted, you could even start a thread along the lines of 'new to FWR and have some questions' and I seriously doubt anyone would be harsh with you. They probably wouldn't anyway, but just to be sure I guess. Hope to see you around there sometime soon, anyway :)

Ah, did not refresh before posting. Glad you jumped in. Haha

I tend to think that splitting boards into smaller boards stifles discussion and does indeed lead to the echo chamber problem

This is absolutely my experience of setting up and moderating online groups over many, many years. That goes double here, where one section is already so dominant people post there just to get traffic.

OP: I still don't understand what exactly you want to exclude/include on your new board. I find analogies with veganism and fox hunting uninformative. Lining up with a discriminated against group for analogy purposes is disingenuous.

Can you give me an example of the definition you would use of LibFem? Beyond the basic 'using legislation' one? I know LibFems, RadFems and OtherFems who disagree on key issues within themselves.

So what are the views would would be unwelcome on the LibFem board? At the moment I agree with those who say it sounds more like noplatforming/echo chamber creation.

I'm hardly a regular on any of the existing boards but I've certainly seen LibFem PoV on the main feminism board and challenging views commoner amongst RadFems. What stops you do the same on the general feminism board?

I have a point regardless what you think of the OP's views on Trans Maryz. I also think that there should be a feminist area where women don't have to feel brave or put their big girl pants on before they enter.

Maybe if people stopped going on on all the other boards about how terrifying the the FWR boards are they might not think they need to be brave? Just a thought..........

People are talking about their experiences of FWR. Even the poster up thread who enjoys FWR says she felt intimidated at the start. I think it would be good to have a feminist section where women don't feel intimidated.

C8H10N4O2, who will be no-platformed because a new sub-section in feminism exists?

I felt intimidated as i felt the women on the FWR board were very intelligent, I'm sure I'm not alone in that

Soooooo

Christ i dont know how to word this next bit...

Wouldn't the new board be as intimidating?

I have no doubt that liberal fems are as intelligent as FWR regulars. Intelligent and intimidating do not have to go hand in hand.

Anything can feel intimidating if you’re new to it. I am nervous asking questions on the dog and horse boards because there are people there who know much more than I do. Ditto the politics boards. Why would the feminist boards be any different?

I felt intimidated just using the forum fullstop as a newbie though. Then intimidated more as..I knew nothing about feminism and didn't want to look like a twat. I felt intimidated about AIBU as I had been told that they were harsh, and I had been told right, which I sharp learned

Well exactly dione

So how would you stop people being intimidated by that new board

Exactly. It's not like you get an easy ride anywhere. I'd be up for a "respectful discussions only" board.

onthlist

Then intimidated more as..I knew nothing about feminism and didn't want to look like a twat

So the same as me...so i would be equally intimidated by the new board

I'm still intimidated, i pretty much just post pictures of kittens

Anyone who isn't a fan of saying "you can't be a feminist if" or who, even if they think it doesn't really bang on about, because, you know, liberalism; that's a liberal feminist to me.

I know a lot of LibFems who have absolutely no pause when it comes to declaring other women non-feminists (they particularly like to say this to 2nd wavers IME).

Unlike Bert, I cannot promise anything. It will be a new sub-section. I don't know how it will play out as that will depend on the people who post there.

What I do know is that the current FWR boards are a cold house for lib fems. Indeed the term is used as an insult there despite the fact that there are many wonderful lib fems working hard for women IRL. Why shouldn't they have a sub-section to discuss their feminism?

If we're talking about intimidating boards on MN, I'm fairly sure AIBU would top the list every time. Woe betide you if you miss out even the smallest of small details.

What I do know is that the current FWR boards are a cold house for lib fems. Indeed the term is used as an insult there despite the fact that there are many wonderful lib fems working hard for women IRL.

Dear lord, this is approaching reds under the bed and monsters in the cupboard levels now.

I post on FWR all the time. The term libfem hardly ever comes up. And advanced search shows 19 mentions of "libfem" in 2018 in FWR so far and 3 of those are about this thread here! There are thousands and thousands and thousands of posts there in 2018.

FWR isn't a board populated by the boogey (wo)men you know!

Are they positive lib fems posts Lang? Or are they more like this one www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3017070-Can-we-talk-about-liberal-feminism

I do worry a lot about this constant urging of women to be nice. From a radical feminists perspective it's all part of the socialisation of women to be quiet, accomodating, not take up too much space, use gentle language, not be pushy or aggressive. It's a trademark of MRA-"if you want us to change, ask us nicely". It's doubly worrying when other women do it. It reminds me of the way nurses used to describe new babies "a sweet little girl" a "big bouncing boy".

Gosh, well haven't I been missing some fun! I hadn't even seen that thread Dione so thanks; it seems my reading of the room was not as off the mark as some would had me believe...