MNHQ here: have you got strong feelings and personal experience about partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

A broadsheet journalist is looking to write a piece exploring the pros and cons of partners staying overnight on postnatal wards, and we're trying to help her out with finding some case studies of women who have personal experiences and opinions one way or the other.

If this sounds like you, please email us on [email protected] to let us know:

a) what your opinion is about partners staying overnight on wards; and
b) what your personal experience is.

Ideally, anyone featured in the piece would be comfortable with divulging some identifying details, and possibly with being photographed.

It's for a good, reputable journalist working for a broadsheet newspaper - she's keen to explore all the angles.

(If you've already contacted us about this, thanks very much - we just need to find a few more candidates and then we'll let you know how the land lies!)

Thanks
MNHQ

"Setting a tone" is in no way a priority over the privacy and dignity of the actual patients who are the women (and babies).

'It's perfectly possible for one person to look after a baby by themselves, and the baby doesn't care.'

And as long as you are physically capable after birth that may be the case but I had a EMCS and couldn't have looked after my baby myself. I thank my lucky stars my husband could stay and settle the baby during the night, provide Kangaroo care so she felt safe, and more importantly I could rest knowing that my baby was with the only other person in the world who loved her as much as me.

Dads aren't patients but they too have just had their own world turned upside down.

It's time hospitals started to reconsider their models of 'wards' and replace them with individual rooms

Private room- yes.
Shared room- absolutely not.

I sent my dh home at night even though we were allowed our partners to stay on shared ward. It was boiling hot and cramped, he'd been up 3 days through labour and EMCS. I wanted him to get some sleep so he could be fresh to look after our DS and let me sleep in the day. DS had jaundice so was in light box for first 3 days.

I hated the noise on the ward, from people on mobile phones and people chatting. I was sore and bleeding but had to walk past lots of strange men to use the toilet. We had to keep curtains open so the staff could see us and so when feeding my son lots of men would walk past and look in. I'm sure there was nothing in it, but they would glance in and see me sitting swollen with my top exposed to feed, plus it was a heatwave and boiling hot.

I felt vulnerable and I hated it

I really don't understand people who say "I couldn't stay on a ward with strange men wondering about" what about in the day? When you're still bleeding and trying to establish feeding? They're still knocking about
In my hospital men aren't allowed in the toilets in the ward, they aren't allowed to use showers either. There's no beds for them to stay overnight but my other half would have gladly slept on a chair just to be with us. He had money that he used on the canteen downstairs, and actually he was the one to notice that I was bleeding heavily, too heavily. Nobody else noticed
Like I said up threas, after my section I fell out of bed trying to get my buzzer. I was left alone on the ward, hadnt seen a midwife in 5 hours. And it took 4 of them to help me back into bed, 4 of them which I inconvenienced. My partner can do the work of 4 of them, and actually he was the one to feed and change our daughter for the first 2 days during the day, in the evening midwives took her away as I couldn't manage it. More inconvenience. I was left without water, I ripped a canula out my arm by mistake trying to pick my baby up (had 3 left in) I was a mess, my partner being there would of being an unexplainable help

It is very wrong to allow partners, male or female, to stay on open maternity wards. In private rooms is fine but it should not be allowed in any other cases.

I had a horrible experience with this during my second EMCS.

And frankly if my partner ever heard a man talk down to a woman he would pull him out the ward himself, he doesn't tolerate men who behave like that
In fact I've never witnessed any bad behaviour from men, of course it happens but it's the woman who scare me. Som3 left their baby alone to go outside and smoke, one went through another person's belongings and stole money from her, one was swearing that the midwives didn't see to her quick enough

This thread doesn't seem to be about partners staying- it seems to be about inadequate post natal care. Which is, surely, a completely different thing.

"I really don't understand people who say "I couldn't stay on a ward with strange men wondering about" what about in the day? When you're still bleeding and trying to establish feeding? They're still knocking about

The difference is that most women want to go to sleep at night, which:

a) makes them feel "more defenceless

b) makes it more of a problem if there is chatting going on around the ward

Also the lights are down and nurses are usually some way off in the corridor. Which again can make women feel more defenceless.

I really needed my partner after the birth of my c section IVF twins. After 10 years of waiting I was overwhelmed and struggled. Yes it was poor care( no food delivered so I had to leave them and hobble down a ward attached to a drip, couldn't lift them and got left with both attached so 1 often fell down the side of the bed and I had to grab them with my teeth, caring for 2 babies alone when in pain was a nightmare, no sleep.....) but it was the new parent anxiety thing I needed his support for too.

I discharged my self early. My first days as a parent are a really unpleasant memory.

Definite no from me.

1. Privacy - if I'm struggling to establish breastfeeding and sitting around with my tits hanging out, or having doctors and nurses examine my episiotomy scars, I'd appreciate time in the day where I knew I didn't have to worry about who was the other side of the curtain.

2. Strain on resources - women who've been on wards where this is allowed have reported men hogging the toilets/showers/bath facilities. Also, even the nicest of men are there in an essentially selfish capacity - getting what's best for their partner. I've read stories on previous threads like this one of women who were on wards alone finding their medical care being interrupted by husbands demanding what was really non-urgent care for their wives. (NB here I'm not talking about the men who find themselves having to chase up why staff aren't responding to a button call for a genuine medical issue, I'm talking about men barging in on examinations to ask why no-one's been along to accompany their wife to the shower or similar).

3. Sadly, a minority of women are in abusive relationships. Often time in the maternity ward may be their only chance of a respite/head space to realise how wrong their situation is/chance to disclose what's going on to HCP without their partner there. Also, their partners may well kick off on the wards (on threads like these in the past HCP have talked in horror of walking into bays on the ward to find such men raping their partners who have only newly given birth). The trouble with this sort of policy is you don't just get the majority of nice, supportive men who have their partner's best interests at heart kicking around the wards, you have all men including the scummy, violent abusive ones.

I appreciate that there are women who've been on understaffed wards who feel that but for their partner they would have been dangerously neglected - but the answer to this is to put proper resources into maternity care, not to expect fathers to stand in for missing medical staff. (And that probably means raising taxes... but that's a whole other thread).

I would have loved my DP to have stayed overnight after I had my baby. I have literally never felt so scared/tired/vulnerable in my life.

I also understand how having other men on the ward could make a new mother feel even more vulnerable however if my DP was there I would feel more protected and wouldn't mind other partners being there as well.

In the hospital I was at there were multiple ward's which each had 4 beds in them. This may sound a bit simplistic and I haven't considered all of the options but how about having some of those wards set up for partners to stay and others for new mothers only so that people can make the choice whether they want their partner to stay or not without encroaching on the women who would prefer female only ward's.

I know the NHS is strapped so may not be possible but just an idea.

The question asked for this article is wrong. It's not whether fathers should be on the ward or not. It's why postnatal wards still exist in the first place when they impact the rights of the mother to privacy, the rights of the father to bond with his baby AND the rights of the baby to have both parents with him/her.

The answer to this is very, very simple. The NHS is woefully underfunded. We work with what we've got, which is antiquated facilities and far too few staff. We would LOVE to have top-notch facilities and be able to deliver 1-to-1 care for postnatal women (I've done this with very poorly women, possible only because as a student I'm supernumery, but can work perfectly capably with a senior midwife signing off on anything I do. It's incredibly satisfying work. Proper midwifery.), heck even 1-to-3 care would be brilliant. But it will never happen, because the NHS is being failed by the government and is desperately underfunded.

The one thing that will make a difference to postnatal women is proper funding and proper staffing. There's not one story on this thread that couldn't have been completely different if the ward were properly staffed. Put enough midwives on, enough support staff, fewer beds in each bay, better food and more of it, available whenever it's needed with staff there to get it. I'd say more private rooms, but that's a massive infrastructure change and it won't happen. All of the above COULD happen if maternity care recieved proper investment.

Partners on wards? I'm not a fan - partners can be very intimidating, to midwives as wel as to other women. For every fabulous bloke who stays, asks for nothing, supports his partner brilliantly and works with you, you get 2 or 3 who are difficult.

Forgot to say, i'm a student midwife, and also a mum of 2.

Partners staying to help must NOT be seen as a cheap alternative to adequate postnatal nursing care and professional support.

Ive come to agree with the general view that partners in single rooms is OK, but not on shared bays. I had a single room and partner (MrNC one night, best friend two nights) stayed, for communication support. However I also had to make a formal complaint about the lack of night-time care, and the MWs said later that that was deliberate: they were so understaffed that someone with another adult in their room was dropped down the priority list.

The experience led to PTSD and lots of antenatal support required in my second pregnancy. I did end up having to spend a night there after birth, on a shared ward with no support. However that time the midwives and other staff couldn't have been better, so despite lack of sleep thanks to six babies in the room, I felt much better prepared and supported than when abandoned with a partner.

I lost a lot of blood after my DD was born and needed a blood transfusion. I was told that if my DH stayed overnight with me while I had the transfusion I would stay where I was in the far corner of the ward as he would be there if there were any problems. But if he went home I'd have to be moved to the high dependency section in front of the midwives so they could keep an eye on me. So basically they wanted him to do their job.

IMO the only reason hospitals encourage this is because they're so short staffed and need partners to lift babies when their mothers have had sections, fetch food/water for them, help them get out of bed and go to the bathroom etc.

Of course they should be allowed to stay, my son was born after emcs in middle of the night, 30 mins in the recovery room then straight to a ward where partners couldn't stay. No time to bond as a family or even hold the baby. The irony of the dads matter posters all over has never hit harder.

An emergency section can be traumatic enough without then being split up in your first moments of being a family. How many fathers/partners have felt less bonded to their child because of that? How many women have suffered ptsd after a traumatic birth which may have been slightly better if her partner had been around immediately afterwards. How many partners have suffered a traumatic time of seeing their partners bleeding out or after an emergency section only to be turfed out straight away.

Most wards have multiple rooms with four or six beds, surely it wouldn't be too difficult to have one room where partners can stay and one for women who don't want them there.

I don't think it's fair on a shared ward. But, I had my own room - gave birth prematurely after an emergency c section to twins (one of them spent some time in the specialist unit for breathing issues and also couldn't suck properly). My milk had not come in yet and I was told to do 2hrly bottle feeds due to them being premature. That's 24 feeds and 24 bottles I also needed to wash and sterilise daily so the only time I really slept was when I had a visitor to help me. The nurses were just over stretched and couldn't help me as they were understandably too busy. So I would have very much appreciated my husband or a friend being allowed to stay and help me especially since I was doing all this with my c section healing and I was alone in the room. But I get not wanting this to happen in a shared room.

Grappling with bleeding, incontinence, breast feeding and all the other post birth indignities in a cramped, hot ward was enough without having to remember to cover up, pull curtains and hold in farts in case some random bloke couldn't handle it. I am sure some ladies want the support where the staff fall short due to short staffing issues. However, those around them may not feel the same. The hospital I was in had visiting from ten am to ten pm. That is quite enough from my point of view. Others may feel differently.

Most wards have multiple rooms with four or six beds, surely it wouldn't be too difficult to have one room where partners can stay and one for women who don't want them there.

I agree with this in the abstract, except that:

1. What happens if ten women want them to go home and only two want to have them stay?

1. What if the woman wants him to go home and he insists on staying?

1. How do you fund the necessary infrastructure?

I have tears in my eyes about the HCPs' stories of assault on wards. Can't we protect women for a couple of nights? Are we really happy to underfund postnatal care to the point where women have to risk physical and sexual assault by their partners?

When I had DC2 the hospital was trialling unlimited visiting hours - previously the rule had been partners 11-8, other visitors 3-4 and 5-6, but it was simply lifted to all visitors 11-8. It wasn't a particular problem for me as I had a side room but due to the sheer volume of complaints they stopped the trial early.

Post natal isn't like other hospital wards where you can reasonably expect to turn the lights off at 11pm and keep everything fairly quiet until 7am. In postnatal there are new patients at all hours of the day and night, and newborns wanting feeding/changing etc regardless of the clock. The recovering new mother might need to catch some sleep in any hour of the 24 and even having visitors for one of those can be disruptive. Even in a private room there might be a mw coming to take obs, or the paed doing rounds, or the FUCKING Bounty lady, etc.

I had DC3 at home and managed at least 12 hours of (albeit broken) sleep in the first 24 after delivery because there was nobody else's timetable to fit.

I think there are some circumstances were partners or another family member should be allowed to stay to provide support. Especially if you delivered at night time, had a c-section or other complications. I had pre-eclampsia and after delivery they couldn't get my blood pressure down. I had to have a magnesium sulfate drip so for the first 24 hours I had to stay in the delivery suite on high dependency and my partner was allowed to stay. I don't think I could have done it without him. I was exhausted as I was having bp checks every 30 minutes so did not get the chance to rest. After the drip was removed, I was transferred to the post natal ward at 11pm after having no sleep for 2 days. My partner wasn't allowed to stay and DD was cluster feeding. I fell asleep whilst she was feeding, luckily DD was fine but I dread to think what could have happened. So the first night on the post natal ward on my own was difficult but the other 4 nights I spent there were fine and I was happy for DP to go as I managed to rest in the day during visiting times. The NHS is what it is, unfortunately I can't see that changing anytime soon so whilst having partners/mothers/whoever step in to provide support where a mother hasn't had a straightforward delivery is not ideal, it is better than the alternative we are getting now i.e. no support at all.

It's a two-pronged problem: lack of staffing and the attitude that some staff have new mothers need to crack on because they'll have to at home. Well, they're not at home (where they might have more support), they're in hospital.

On other threads there's been discussion that midwives aren't being trained as nurses first so as such are not dealing adequately with patients who have had complicated deliveries.

I've had 3 children and have certainly seen a great lack of pain relief provided for patients. Indeed I brought my own in with the second and third child.

To all this, the answer isn't doubling the occupancy of a ward and making it mixed-gender, with half of it occupied by non-patients.

I don't understand the problem with partners being allowed to stay overnight. Many of the problems listed (people on mobile phones, loud voices, staring, invading privacy etc) are issues of manners rather than men being present. Don't people know to keep quiet and not to stare at new mothers they don't know? That applies to men and women equally.

My husband stayed with me on a 4 bed ward for 2 out of 3 nights. I'd had an emergency c-section after a long failed induction, and I desperately needed him there. I could hardly move, was exhausted and in pain, couldn't get breastfeeding going, and the midwives were too stretched to come every time the baby needed something. I called him in tears at 1am on the second night as I just couldn't cope, and he came straight away. He was invaluable, and he didn't annoy any other women because he knows how to behave.

I was disturbed by one family in my ward, but it was because they kept having loud, sweary arguments, rather than because the man was present.

No no no!

Post-labour ward is grim at the best of times, there's not enough staff or help as it is. To add to that with partners taking up space and making demands, those new mothers on their own would get even less of their needs met.

By all means invest in post-natal services and create space and staffing to accommodate twice the number of people. When we get to this utopia, we can have the conversation then.

But in the meantime, how about we focus on getting new mothers a meal that isn't toast or out of a vending machine, some help with feeding their newborns and opportunity to rest after giving birth?

There really are other post-labour priorities to get right and meet the needs of patients before we start contemplating their wants. Partners on the ward are not necessary.

Don't people know to keep quiet and not to stare at new mothers they don't know?

You'd think, but no. Some people are just arses. I was on a postnatal ward where partners could stay all day (except were booted out for an hour at lunch) but not at night. The partner of the woman in the next bed was such a rude, loud, attention-seeking loudmouth who took up loads of the staff's time - far more than his poor partner did! He was there all day and it was bad enough then - I can't imagine how much worse it would have been to have him a foot away from my bed all sodding night as well.

Patients in other wards are entitled to single-sex wards for privacy and dignity reasons. Patients on the postnatal wards should be entitled to that as well, and not have to share a ward overnight with a bunch of non-patient men they don't know at a really vulnerable time. My DH would have loved to stay with me and our baby I'm sure, but he's not a patient so his wishes should not override the privacy and dignity of other patients.