To Ask That MNHQ Treat ALL Posts/Posters/Campaigns Seeking To Derail & Hunt Out Any Form Of Bigotry, As They Do Troll Hunters

[RockinHippy]

The current trend has been a campaign to point out & completely derail threads with shouts of disabilsm, too often IMHO, unfounded.

Though I do feel a lot of empathy for the posters involved & know too well that disablism can exist. Plus I don't doubt they have difficult lives dealing with all that comes with DCs with SN, however I do feel what is happening currently on MN is way over the top, hypersensitive & does no one any favours, least of all the disabled & is IMHO comparable to "troll hunting" & feel it would improve many posters enjoyment of MN if MNHQ could treat this & any similarly bigot hunting posts/campaigns in the same way as they do Troll Hunters.

I should add, I am a disabled DM, of a disabled DC & as such I do not appreciate the current campaign as speaking for us all - not in my name thank you very much, its way OTT & quite frankly damaging & it has become very boring.

I have no intention if getting into any debates, I have seen enough posts to form the opinion that the inevitable stress & real life disabilist problems that can of course go hand in hand with raising DCs with SN can result in a warped perspective of others intentions. I also find it sad, that posters who should have far more empathy for people starting threads in difficult & stressful situations, might not actually word themselves very well & really don't need posters jumping down their throats for perceived bigotry that the rest of us do not see. Ive just left a thread with a prime example of that, where reference to a school looking out for "bad kids" was instantly taken to mean SN, rather than just troubled kids in all quises, very often without any SN at all, as has been our own experience with a similarly biased primary school. That is not disabilism, it is is simply a bad choice of words referring to disruptive & aggressive behaviour for a host of reasons.

I wont reply to any attacks on this post. I just think in the interest of keeping MN the welcoming, place where parents etc can ask for help & opinions related to a specific issue, that it is meant to be. That it might be helpful that all such campaigns & posts be treat in the same way as troll hunting & any grievances as regards any posting/threads be reported, rather than attacked in the frenzied & unhelpful way that seems to be happening too often of late.

Perhaps those of us who feel this way can let MNHQ know here...

Unfortunately there seems to be some posters who offer no advice or support, just go straight for the "that person may have a disability so your views are disablist".

Interestingly, this seems to be okay on racist, sexist, ageist threads. Oh wait, sometimes the advice is kind of like "DFOD" and THEN that's racist, sexist, and so on. But when a disability is involved, you cannot mention that it is disablist without having a SOLUTION. Why is that, I wonder?

And there are some posters who immediately dismiss anyone talking about disablism as "hysterical" or "aggressive". There is wrong on both sides of this argument, what is needed is calm, open dialogue without nastiness and sneering or sniping. Without that nobody is going to be heard.

I know milk. But there are also the posters who go straight for 'his parents will just claim he has ADHD '

The anger and frustration doesn't exist in a vacuum. I've been asking for years for posters to get just as upset and indignant when there are horrible threads about children with SN, with disabled toilet threads, wheelchairs on buses etc etc. But the default setting does seem to be to ignore those and let people with disabilities stick up for themselves.

If everyone made this place more supportive for people living with SN and disabilities then maybe the sense of isolation which gives rise to some of the anger would be lessened.

Most people are good hearted and are horrified at the accusations of disablism.bbut I think there is a sort of indifference to the shit stuff that gets posed on here sometimes.

I think that was what let to the This is my child campaign but it hasn't really helped that much.
I'm not sure that made sense but I know what I meant

Ginger - because as a general rule on MN, when people post it's because they want solutions. Not more stuff for them to worry about. Our primary focus is our own children, we do not know the details of others and we don't have the right to know.

Certain phrases get old, I have to admit. The one that springs to mind (which is trotted out a LOT) is "I'm sure there are no disabilities or SEN involved."

The problem is you generally don't. It's a phrase that's designed to shut down any discussion of SEN/SN/disabilities before it even begins. It's one of those "look, don't even bother bringing it up, because I'm not willing to acknowledge this."

Good post, OP. As with other guideline breaks people should report and leave it to MNHQ to decide.

It must be very off-putting to new members. I hate to think that people in need of support are reluctant to post.

Yes, they want solutions. I think after 40 odd people telling them to speak to the teacher, they've had solutions offered, don't you think? So if one person doesn't offer a solution, their world comes careening down? It's not on the MN T&C that we can only post if we have a solution to offer.

Yes, primary focus is your own child. But honestly, is it really that much to spare a moment to consider that the child is a person, that is possibly struggling and in need of better support? Isn't that a part of the whole picture? So the OP solves her problem as her child is moved. Two days later, there can be another MNer that posts because HER child is now by the "disruptive" child. And the whole things starts all over again. Or.... people can take away the idea that a lot of times, these children have SEN of some sort and are in need of better support. Perhaps they do need to move their child away, but perhaps also they can raise with the school that there seems to be a lack of support that is creating issues within the classroom. Perhaps they will see the parent in a more sympathetic light - not as the neglectful or disinterested mum of the thug-child, but as the worn out mum that has been battling the school for two years to get appropriate support for her child, but the school is throwing up obstacles and refusing to help.

The latter is certainly a more helpful attitude to walk away with than "thank fuck I got my kid moved away from that little shit - he's someone else's problem now!"

I think a big problem is the overt vs implied bigotry. Sure, some outrageous MRA stuff on here will be met merely with ODFOD, as it deserves. On less overt sexist posts I'll say 'that's sexist, because...'. I've never succeeded on having an insidiously sexist post deleted so I only report the outrageous ones, which would need to include personal attack or appalling language to even be considered for deletion.

I think to many users, insidious disablism pisses them off outrageously, for good reason. But that in itself doesn't make the post delete worthy. I get that many users feel at the end of their tether but you can't expect hq to treat implicit disablism they they would treat explicit sexism or racism.

All isms function at differing levels, from hate crime and violence down to phrases that could be interpreted two ways. You can't treat it all with the same big stick without losing reasonable freedom of expression.

Ginger - d'you know what... no it isn't much to take a moment and consider the other child. And your post there is the kind of post that does make people stop and think.

If only more of the posts were like that and less accusatory!

(Although for my DS the problem isn't so simple and I have no idea what the long term solution is.)

But you're making a sweeping statement there. I didn't say anything about this boys mum being neglectful or otherwise.

That's fine, as I wasn't talking about you.

Has it ever even crossed your mind some children are badly behaved?

I'll point out that I made a calm, measured, thoughtful post to a general situation, and you immediately made assumptions and went after the details and criticised me. THIS is where some of the problem lies.

I'd say that illustrates my point fairly clearly.

I'm with the OP.

As PP have said people come here looking for support, if in the course of doing so they post something that is disablist or offensive, they absolutely should be called on it. And Although there is no responsibility for other posters to educate the person who is perceived to have caused the offence, if a reason is given for the view, a constructive discussion can continue.

I don't like it when threads are derailed, because some posters consider they are judge and jury on a particular topic. Particularly when anyone who dares to have an alternative view is branded disablist and is subjected to unpleasant personal attacks.

In my view derailing a thread is a form of trolling, and I would like to see it managed in the same way.

Not like trolls polter but troll hunters

Nobody could really want posters who challenge bigotry to be treated like trolls

I think the point is to report the posts tgat are wrong rather than getting into slanging matches and name calling.

OK to clarify. It's the goady derailing that bugs me. I am not suggesting we stop challenging isms.

Polter - I think challenging constructively is fine, it's the rudeness, the PAs, the sniping, the threads alerting posters to other threads that's the problem.