To Ask That MNHQ Treat ALL Posts/Posters/Campaigns Seeking To Derail & Hunt Out Any Form Of Bigotry, As They Do Troll Hunters

[RockinHippy]

The current trend has been a campaign to point out & completely derail threads with shouts of disabilsm, too often IMHO, unfounded.

Though I do feel a lot of empathy for the posters involved & know too well that disablism can exist. Plus I don't doubt they have difficult lives dealing with all that comes with DCs with SN, however I do feel what is happening currently on MN is way over the top, hypersensitive & does no one any favours, least of all the disabled & is IMHO comparable to "troll hunting" & feel it would improve many posters enjoyment of MN if MNHQ could treat this & any similarly bigot hunting posts/campaigns in the same way as they do Troll Hunters.

I should add, I am a disabled DM, of a disabled DC & as such I do not appreciate the current campaign as speaking for us all - not in my name thank you very much, its way OTT & quite frankly damaging & it has become very boring.

I have no intention if getting into any debates, I have seen enough posts to form the opinion that the inevitable stress & real life disabilist problems that can of course go hand in hand with raising DCs with SN can result in a warped perspective of others intentions. I also find it sad, that posters who should have far more empathy for people starting threads in difficult & stressful situations, might not actually word themselves very well & really don't need posters jumping down their throats for perceived bigotry that the rest of us do not see. Ive just left a thread with a prime example of that, where reference to a school looking out for "bad kids" was instantly taken to mean SN, rather than just troubled kids in all quises, very often without any SN at all, as has been our own experience with a similarly biased primary school. That is not disabilism, it is is simply a bad choice of words referring to disruptive & aggressive behaviour for a host of reasons.

I wont reply to any attacks on this post. I just think in the interest of keeping MN the welcoming, place where parents etc can ask for help & opinions related to a specific issue, that it is meant to be. That it might be helpful that all such campaigns & posts be treat in the same way as troll hunting & any grievances as regards any posting/threads be reported, rather than attacked in the frenzied & unhelpful way that seems to be happening too often of late.

Perhaps those of us who feel this way can let MNHQ know here...

*This isn't going to go well tbh

The problem is, sometimes there is disabilism when it isn't obvious. I don't mind it being pointed out

I don't appreciate being jumped on and accused of being disabilist.

That is the difference*

Everything Sou said sums it up perfectly for me.

No it's not about sitting down in a corner and shutting up. It's about following talk guidelines, reporting where you feel it's necessary and accepting the website owners decision.

As I said before - if people don't like how the website is run they are free to leave, if they think the law has been broken they should make an official complaint.

It has become like troll hunting where whole threads get completely derailed.

That's a balanced and well thought out post op
Thank you

I've done that, Milk, and still posters here want me to shut up. The only deletion of mine I've seen was me quoting a deleted post to remind HQ of something.

Try ten years of belittling and then not be abrupt and to the point.

I'm staying within guidelines and reporting yet still being told my opinion is somehow offensive.

Also are those in favour of this thread also supportive of allowing sexism, racism, ageism etc to stand unchallenged too? As the title refers to all forms of bigotry.

Is the aim a 'freedom of speech' board with no consideration to protected groups?

Just a heads up - the Daily Mail comments is a good place for what you seek if so.

I totally get that explaining the same stuff over and over gets wearing.

I'm beyond bored of pointing out insidious sexism (mainly on Mil or OW threads) but if I'm going to make the charge 'oi, that's sexist' then I have to say why.

Otherwise it's like being at school 'if you don't know then I'm not going to tell you' etc.

Say it by all means, but tell me why.

Bishop I can understand that it's very wearing, but you appear to be taking your frustration out on posters who haven't been causing you ten years of pain.

Imagine yourself as a customer... you go in to a shop and ask the sales assistant a question and they tear you a new one because they've been answering questions all day and they're sick of it. That's not your fault though... but you get a bollocking anyway... iyswim?

It's a fairly shit analogy I know, but I can't think of anything else right now.

I think this isn't the best way to make the situation better.

I am really not sure that you can suggest that if people feel they are being treated poorly they should not be allowed to talk about it.

It's also kind of othering. I see disablism on here. Sometimes I comment, other times I don't. I see over reactions and I see defensiveness. I post on lots of different issues and I'm neither hysterical nor rude.

Is the plan that I'm not allowed to point out if I am irritated because other posters dealing with disability are seen as over reacting. Isn't that a pretty worrying road to head down?
If I think someone is expressing racist views I say so because I dislike racist views being left unchallenged. I'm going to find it difficult if I can post that I think someone is being racist but I can't respond if someone is being disablist.

The problem is that simply deserving to be heard doesn't make people listen. Challenging peoples world views in a hostile manner is just likely to make them close their ears. Which is exactly what has happened here, and in a lot of places, about a lot of issues. Nobody is listening. Shouting louder doesn't help.

And I say this as a disabled person, if it matters.

Looking at the comparison to other bigotry...

If you have regular phone contact with someone and you turn to your colleague and say "I really don't like X", what would you think if that colleague said "That's racist! For all you know X might be from a different ethnic origin!"

Probably another shit analogy, but there you go.

I am really not sure that you can suggest that if people feel they are being treated poorly they should not be allowed to talk about it.

I think that works both ways. If I think my child is being treated poorly at school I should be allowed to discuss it and ask questions without being told that I'm being disablist because the other child in the equation might have SEN.

Shall we stop challenging all isms?

I know, lets not mention anything, turn the boards into a free for all.. fuck actually trying to get people to understand they're being sexist, racist, misogynist, xenophobic, disablist, ageist.

No-one is allowed to say anything any more because its offending some posters being told they're wrong.

No-one say a word.

I do think threads which have other bigotry in them do get dealt with quicker. In fact, I don't think, I know. They do. We all need to challenge bigotry, wherever we find it. Fwiw my opinion is that you get more flies with honey. If you shout at people or become angry, even if your point is absolutely valid, they won't listen. There's fault on both sides of this argument, I think that education and listening to each other is a start.

Well yes, but, taking that example, it might help if rather than looking at it from the viewpoint of whose child is being poorly treated it was discussed in terms of why is it that so many children with Sen are not given sufficient support.

For me the problem is when the child is seen as the issue. when SN are involved the issue is usually inadequate or inappropriate support.

I agree aeyokthen
It's because everyone takes these things so personally. I don't think most people are intentionally negative about disabilities but it's so entrenched people just don't see it.
So as soon as the possibility of disablism is raised everyone gets defensive and angry. And the people seeing the disablism are already angry so tempers flare.

What isn't ok is the putting words into peoples mouths, being rude, getting aggressive/shouty and name calling.

Exactly.

I have been jumped on in the past just for saying I don't think something is disabilism.

No one knows what I or other posters deal with on a daily basis.

Respect goes both ways.

I personally don't think anyone should stop challenging disablism but I think the rude, snipey responses are not useful and are not helping people learn, just making them feel shit. I know it's not everyone doing this but those who shout loudest obviously stand out.

No one should stop challenging

The way they challenge needs to change

Also are those in favour of this thread also supportive of allowing sexism, racism, ageism etc to stand unchallenged too? As the title refers to all forms of bigotry.
^
Is the aim a 'freedom of speech' board with no consideration to protected groups?

Just a heads up - the Daily Mail comments is a good place for what you seek if so.^

I have no intention of involving myself in any further debate on this matter, as I already made clear in my OP. Dealing with the usual daily grind here, plus DD has a nasty sickness bug, so I have neither the time nor the inclination, besides I would rather not waste energy on banging my head on a wall

But by way of doubly clarifying

I'm sorry but this post is a prime example of the sort of deliberate goady misinterpretation, that is too often the start of the slanging matches that gain nothing, but leave many of us shaking our heads & rolling our eyes in disbelief at how blind that poster is to the harm they do.

At no point did I say any form of bigotry was acceptible, it isn't I would be the last person to accept it in RL or otherwise. BUT if posters do take offence, they need to use the proper channels to report it & at most leave a polite reply pointing out why they think a comment is disabilist (or otherwise). NOT gather up their mates & swoop in like some hoard of avenging angels, set on forcing the poster to change their mind & ramming what may well be an ill-conceived opinion down their throats.

As pointed out by a poster above, you sometimes need to accept you are not always right, that you are so primed for spotting disabilism that you can at times see it where there is none & that politely pointing out once is okay & then agree to disagree, report the post & move on is far more likely to get your point heard than the current bombardment. Nobody likes to be nagged, nor told how to think, its the quickest way to lose anyones attention & gains nothing but derailing a thread.

Also sometimes language evolves & moves on. I often see swear words bandied about as a perfectly acceptable everyday language, words that to my generation were highly offensive & had a different meaning, but have evolved as having a more acceptable & have a less offensive meaning. This happens, its fine.

My last word on the subject I have life to deal with

Pagwatch - looking at the bigger picture yes, the lack of support for children with SEN should be discussed, but if I come on to a parenting website looking for support/advice for my child at that particular moment in time then I need advice on that specific thing. It's none of my business if any other children in the school have SN or not, so that cannot be the focus of my attention.

Milk

Yes. And if I post on your thread I'm going to strongly advise you to go to the school and do whatever you need to to ensure that your child's needs are met. I've posted specifically that way many times over the last decade.

I also fully understand why posters challenging disablism are angry, it's years of being ignored/belittled/sidelined or watching it happen to your child that makes you angry. I know how that feels, I just try not to get immediately angry because it negates my point if people switch off because I'm angry. It's hard sometimes, really hard. But if everyone is shouting how can anybody be heard? (That goes for everyone by the way)

Which is exactly how MN should work

Unfortunately there seems to be some posters who offer no advice or support, just go straight for the "that person may have a disability so your views are disablist".

(Sorry - that ^ was to Pagwatch)

If you have regular phone contact with someone and you turn to your colleague and say "I really don't like X", what would you think if that colleague said "That's racist! For all you know X might be from a different ethnic origin!"

This is a good example I think. Everyone in the entire world could have a hidden disability, but unfortunately the world isn't smiles and rainbows and not everyone is nice to each other, we all grind each other occasionally and we have to just muddle through. I, myself, have a hidden disability but I don't expect people to expect that I have one.