This is bullshit. Thread #2

[BeyondSpecialSnowflake]

Following on from...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/a2716008-Seriously-MN-this-is-fucking-bullshit?msgid=63181862#63181862

Thank you, Snowshimmer.

I have not read all this thread yet, but I wanted to thank ItsAllGoingToBeFine for posting the link to the American College of Paediatrics statement. Honestly, I am so glad for a clear and unequivocal position statement. I hope other medical and professional bodies follow suit.

Crimes committed by MTTs should be counted as crimes committed by males with a further classification as MTTs. There's no justification for anything else.

You're welcome almond - it upset a lot of us that a man with a rapist attitude to lesbians could be LGBT officer and call women cuntscum, but women got deleted on MN for calling him he, since he identifies as "they".

For the purposes of statistics it should not matter in the slightest.
It has to be recorded as committed by a transwoman.

I think it's the same political strategy police and governments across the EU have used to avoid stating when someone of particular religion, nationality etc has committed a certain type of crime. The feeling is that to share that information is in itself a discriminatory act, and they fear being shamed/sued/triggering reaction and publicity because it gives the impression that this particular group is a risk.

Again, this ignores and covers up the underlying issue that while NA(whoever)ALT, there are justifiable questions, concerns and topics that people are being prevented from acknowledging, talking about or having a non-compliant reality to. The Emperor has lovely clothes, ooh look a squirrel'.

I think some people must be under the illusion that MTT look like women. It's very very rare for a MTT to pass as women to women, perhaps slightly less rare to men.

Transwomen when either victims or perpetrators should be recorded as trans.

Funnily enough when they're victims their trans status is often recorded unlike when they commit crime which is why stats are impossible to find.

Please note than transition does not alter men's offending rates, it can make the risk of committing sexual crimes slightly higher.

rumbling it's extraordinary isn't it? That they would delete a TW for Daring to talk about about her experience of the trans community

Wasn't helen deleted for saying autogynaephilia is the elephant in the room.

Oh the irony

God you're right. AGuyCalledHelen's post was deleted from the Spartacus thread. Some sneaky deletions there. Why are some posts there not ok but the rest are? WTF HQ.

Crimes committed by MTTs should be counted as crimes committed by males with a further classification as MTTs. There's no justification for anything else.

I agree completely. Claire Darbyshire is an interesting illustration - the first articles about his crime neglected to mention his MTT status. I remember first hearing about the case on the radio and he was referred to as a woman throughout. Likewise here www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35591079 and in the first DM article about the case. I had no idea of the truth until I came across a photograph.

Later articles do mention that Claire Darbyshire is trans and was also previously known to police for breaking into a woman's home, trying on her clothes and 'soiling' a pair of her knickers. Is this counted as a crime committed by a woman?

cancel murdering your father and breaking into your neighbour's house to wank into her knickers is about as far as "living as a woman" as I can imagine. But the BBC still made no mention of their trans status until hours later. I remember seeing the comments on the website querying the photo because it's so obviously a man but the online article just ignored it (the screenshot is from after it was updated).

Just so you know, The Anerican College of Pediatrics is actually a right wing Christian organisation that advocates gay conversion therapy, abstinence, is anti abortion, anti sex ed, anti same sex relationships etc etc.

Read their stuff in context. They are not a scientific unbiased professional organisation.

This article in the Daily Beast gives a MtT's POV re the Cotton Ceiling issue. It's quite jaw dropping

Cancel and Hermione the reporting of Darbyshire's crimes really brought home to me how complicit the BBC are in all this. Chilling.

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat

Wow, the deep misogyny and lesbophobia here is jaw dropping.

"When I asked the cis men who responded to my ad if they had ever dated a trans woman before, they didn’t disappear like the cis dykes usually did. Instead, most of them gave thoughtful answers. Some said that they found trans women more interesting, open-minded, and/or courageous than the average cis woman."

Really? Okay, I will look at their website properly - you are right that context is important. Then I will comment

Just so you know, The Anerican College of Pediatrics is actually a right wing Christian organisation that advocates gay conversion therapy, abstinence, is anti abortion, anti sex ed, anti same sex relationships etc etc.

Yes, apologies for that I naively thought it was a "real" organisation. However, despite their beliefs I think their statement on trans children is broadly correct?

Miranda, I imagine that's because straight men aren't pressured to consider trans women as sexual partners, so feel free to pontificate on it rather than "disappear" as lesbians feel is the best option when faced with something that can get very nasty very quickly.

And virtue signal, safe in the knowledge that they're never going to actually have to do it.

If anyone has any general questions on autogynephilia, including what it is, what it isn't and What the real life consequences are, I'm very happy to give you a reasoned answer supported by arguments and literature where necessary or helpful.

I've just read that Daily Beast article and maybe I'm far too heterosexual and lacking in understanding of others' sexuality but I really don't understand what the transwoman writing it struggles to understand. The writer is a TW, right? I understand that means he has a penis? He likes lesbian women with vaginas who call themselves lesbians because they are sexually attracted to other people with vaginas and who are biologically female. The writer is biologically male and has a penis and he/she doesn't understand that they don't find that attractive? Why would they? The whole point is that they are only attracted to women, i.e people born with vaginas. Why is this a big deal? Because he's not getting his/her own way? How can it be discrimination? If I am sexually attracted to gay men (as a woman) but they are not attracted to me (because they are gay men), is it discrimination on their part against me?
I'm not being goady but I just really really really don't understand this idea that if people legitimately don't want to fuck you then you can whinge about it being discrimination and try to guilt them into it somehow. Nobody owes anybody sex, that's not how it works.

venusinscorpio
Yes that occurred to me too. I dislike the way Serano appears to be saying men are 'better' and more 'thoughtful' for considering a male partner. I also really really really really really really really really dislike the term 'cis dykes'.

Sorry, the pronouns are not a deliberate attempt to offend. I realise I've used he and she.

Yes, I have googled autogynephilia but I don't understand what it is. Can you explain it to me in simple terms, I'm new to all this. Up until about 2 days ago I didn't really understand what wwas meant by TW, so it needs to be basic.

No, I don't think you are being too heterosexual or not understanding correctly. To me it's rapey logic. You can't shame someone into having sex with you if they don't find you attractive and don't consider you to form part of a group that constitutes potential sexual partners according to their sexuality. I find the concept deeply misogynistic and homophobic towards lesbians. Yet if you google you can find lots of examples of trans people and their allies defending this view.