This is bullshit. Thread #2

[BeyondSpecialSnowflake]

Following on from...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/a2716008-Seriously-MN-this-is-fucking-bullshit?msgid=63181862#63181862

My apologies, I got pretty confused at your comments.

I'd argue that Helen is receiving more attention because she answers questions. Ego does not. That is Ego's choice of course, but it becomes immensely frustrating when you're told the TRAs are a minority, most don't think this, but asking questions is rude. Education goes both ways. I find Ego as harmless as Helen and Miranda, but that's the sticking point.

That thread was harsh, I guess I'm blinded to it but all the crap I face for my sexuality. Which is true for all of us: our issues matter the most to us all, always. Which is why I pointed out that I found the comments about disabled children very discomfiting as someone with a quite disabled son.

Also, I suffer from severe chronic pain and as I mentioned earlier, mental health issues. So reading I shouldn't care about my own child was extra hurtful.

I want to post on MN, not reddit precisely becaue I don't want encho chamber. I'd think from the comments I read there, Helen and Miranda would not be accetable v=candidates to them, and we are still wrong for supporting them.

They are the very natural reaction to this TRA crap, which as Elsa points out, is now everyone's issue, so we all get an opinion whether TRAs think we should have one, or not. I do not support that level of hate and anger, as i said I'm removed extreme anger at trans from my life by ignoring their opinions on my sexuality. I think that level of anger is not normal, from anyone - trans or woman.

Btw James Cantor also wrote some really interesting stuff.

This explains so much of why I'm harassed. Which I never understood.

It's not hard to get confused by my posts. I am far from eloquent. :o

I'm happy to hear the autistic/disabled comments are being picked up and criticised, I am a mother of an autistic 9-year-old boy and a 3-year-old who is being assessed right now. I have never felt pandered too on MN.

I feel like Ego has answered man questions in the past and just doesn't want to anymore. There are so many.

I completely sympathise with what you must go through because of your sexuality. I can't even imagine it. I would also back you up if there were a reddit link being posted that showed people being hateful towards you because of it.

Many questions.

Apologies for typos and taking ages to reply, I'm currently typing with a 3-year-old who doesn't sleep trying to balance on my head.

I agree. If Ego does not want to answer questions about Ego's life, of course that's fine. However, hints and innuendos are annoying. After a point, there is a certain be quiet feeling, tbh. That does not justify a hurtful group, who I do not affiliate with in any way.

God, I do not feel pandered to on MN! My son isn't Autistic, but quite disabled. That comment was very odd as it was very disablist about disabled mothers, yet was somehow argued as being a positive opinion about female disability [confuse] I'd also argue the people that go into threads about abuse and say, maybe he's autistic!' are very unlikely to be the parent of a autistic child, much more likely to be something they think is being helpful, when actually they're being harmful.

That should obviously read DS1. I have two sons

Exhaustion makes me rather tacky.

I'd also argue the people that go into threads about abuse and say, maybe he's autistic!' are very unlikely to be the parent of an autistic child

I couldn't agree more, it's just ignorance.

I think it's great that you have stood up and said you don't affiliate with that awful reddit group btw. Finding someone annoying is one thing but to invite the likes of the people on that thread to tear someone apart is just wrong.

I'm glad we got chatting here Special. Thanks for putting up with my scattered posts. :o

Are you up with kids? My PILS took the kids tonight to let me sleep (they know all about my severe insomnia issues) Which of course, meant I got a whole night to myself, doing what I wanted - posting on MN

Me too! I like hearing other's viewpoints. Opinions should never be censored. Well, along the lines of free speech or however any of that stuff goes!

Also, you're putting up with my scattered posts, so y'know, quid pro-pro

DS2 hasn't slept for a full hour all night. I just made him breakfast but he's conked out again.

SIGH. I'm just going to eat this bloody cereal myself.

I envy you so much right now. I'm giving DH another hour before it's his turn and I can get some sleep.

DH works nights, and I have severe insomnia, (obviously!) plus DS1's sleep routines.. My PILs find it a mixture of admirable and confusing how well DTs can sleep, anywhere, and conversely how DS1 just cannot.

It's soo easy to be smug about your sleeping children before you get a bad one.

My mother never found my sleeping patterns easy

Also, I want food, but y'know, movement... >Ambiguous hand wave

However, hints and innuendos are annoying

I will tell you what is annoying. Being accused repeatedly of derailing when I defend myself. Having people bring up comments about things I have said - and then accuse me of making it about myself when I comment on them. A comment on here when you made what you thought was an innocuous comment about me flouncing and then coming back - I could have ignored it but I don't get why you felt the need to do that.

People do that on here to me all the time. Make a comment about me and then attack me when I respond

And I will tell you what else is annoying. The silence. The fact that many people just ignore it. I am sure some people report it but there are others on the thread who ignore the bullying. And it is bullying. It reminds me of the many many years I had of bullying at school for being different and no one said anything.

At least back then, no had Facebook or Reddit and did not feel the need to start a thread elsewhere discussing a poster. And then have someone link to it on a parenting support site. And then have only a few posters on here condemning it.

That is what is annoying.

Thanks to mistress and olennas for their kind comments. There is no fucking way I am going to answer anything personal on here anymore. That Reddit thread scared the shit out of me. Knowing that people read on here and then take it elsewhere.

It's got nothing on what many activists (from all groups) get - nothing on Laura Bates for example. I cannot imagine what they go through. I give them full credit for what they do - it takes real guts to do that. But I've learnt my lesson. MN is not a place to educate people. I will do my education in the real world. A world where people can't twist what you say and post Reddit threads - or probably Facebook groups as well.

I really hope no other MN poster is subject to their own discussion thread elsewhere. And if they are, I hope people condemn it rather than have a go at the poster.

Any activists - and that includes helen and miranda deserve full credit for speaking up. Speaking up on the internet comes at a personal cost to many.

I have a 13 year old DD. She has never been into dolls, will not wear skirts or dresses, has short hair and is more into cadets and anime than makeup and fashion and I think she is fab. Never once has anyone other than my MIL (whole other thread) suggested this is wrong in any way. I have had the tearful conversations about 'am I not a proper girl?' 'Am I a boy?' And this breaks my heart. I will be using a lot of what I have leared on this thread to help her see she is fab as she is and just because she does not conform to gender stereotypes does not mean she is any less a girl. Thankyou all for helping me be able to do this.

I will be using a lot of what I have leared on this thread to help her see she is fab as she is and just because she does not conform to gender stereotypes does not mean she is any less a girl. Thankyou all for helping me be able to do this

Totally agree. I do wish it was more acceptable for ANYONE in society not to have to conform to gender stereotypes and if they don't, that should not mean anything about their 'body'.

But we are a society where society does impose strict gender rules. It starts at school and even before that. It does make me sad that children who veer from such rules are often labelled as 'boy' or 'girl' and are described as such - and I do think that many trans kids aren't trans but merely like doing / wearing different things to what they are 'supposed to'. So they get labelled.

But - there are people who do have actual body issues. What they see in the mirror and how their body 'feels' does not match up with what their body is. HRT and surgery resolves such issues.

I'm sorry you felt my innocuous comment was 'bullying.' I really disagree with that, so there's really no discussion to be had other than sorry you have hurt feelings.

Good on you toriap! You DD is most certainly a lovely girl.

I'm sorry you felt my innocuous comment was 'bullying

I did not say that your inncuous comment was bullying. It's all the other crap that I get.

Many, many comments on the Reddit thread are disgusting and it's unpleasant to see what some MN posters really think; and are happy to say - when on a forum with no talk guidelines.

I think it's very good there are a group of women that fall between hysterical acceptance and out right shaming transwomen, which honestly seemed to be the only 'acceptable' social media stances recently. There is simply no boundaries. You're evil and killing people with your own sexuality/experiences/life.identity/etc OR you are expected to send all your time pandering to a lie, very reminiscent of the instance in rape culture that you dutifully acknowledge 'oh, yeah, not all men are rapists.' Well, duh

But - there are people who do have actual body issues. What they see in the mirror and how their body 'feels' does not match up with what their body is. HRT and surgery resolves such issues.

I agree there has to be a large amount of dysphoria involved. I just can't help wondering if a) HRT and surgery resolves these issues in all or even most cases? b) If HRT / surgery are the best solution.
.
I think as well in a way there shouldn't be just one category of transgender - there are obviously different "types" on the one hand you have got those who are so dysphoric they put themselves through full surgery, on the other hand you have those who make no effort to "pass" bit insist that they are woman.

The two things seem completely different to me - and I don't think they should be seen or treated in the same way?

Miranda and Helen plus some detransitioning people I have read all say that they have found some sort of "peace" through looking at gender more closely and realising that actually it is OK to be the way they present/feel etc whilst not denying their sex.

An interesting analogy I read was someone who was OCD about hand washing because of fear of germs - that is not treated by teaching them how to wash their hands more effectively.

I guess that in some cases surgery is the best treatment, it just concerns me that in some cases it seems to be the only treatment without exploring other options - I suspect that this is again confused by "transgender" not being a specific "condition" but a jumping together of very different people/causes under one name.

Place marking.

I found the comment about disabled mothers (I am one) with disabled DC (I have one) very hurtful.

I tend to find genuinely hurtful people hold hurtful opinions on lots of issues though. No one ever has one issue. Perhaps an obsessive one (like KK etc) but they tend to hate, well, everyone who does not agree with their worldview.

I actually agree with a lot of what they say, and may consider going there if I feel it'll be helpful to me an my family, in the future. Venting frustration in an echo chamber would likely make me angry and hateful, and I'm quite happy just ignoring TRAs ridiculous stances an female sexuality.

However, I'm a mum. I'm not afforded the luxury of ignoring these opinions in my children's lives. I need them to understand, an saying 'agree with me, because I said so' on an issue like this isn't going to cut it.

I do think acknowledging a life of celibacy is a big deal and shouldn't be treated like it is not, but I have never really seen this discussed anywhere.

I saw the reddit thread too, but backed out in horror when I saw the utterly bizarre stuff about boys with disabilities, and the disgusting language used about ego.

It's ok to disagree, and I will admit I find ego very frustrating to converse with, but that kind of stuff goes beyond disagreement and into personal abuse, which is horrible. I don't really know what reddit is, but I suspect most discussions of polarising issues go a similar way on there ie a race to the bottom with the most hateful slurs possible.

They don't represent me and I do not agree with the words and (truly mind boggling) views they share there in their unmoderated paradise.

Ego