This is bullshit. Thread #2

[BeyondSpecialSnowflake]

Following on from...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/a2716008-Seriously-MN-this-is-fucking-bullshit?msgid=63181862#63181862

Corrective rape is exactly what it sounds like. It's perpetued by every single TRA I've ever seen except for Miranda and Helen, as a helpful 'solution' to transwomen dating problems.

Luckily, the law is on our side and we just laugh at deranged psychos who propose The Cotton Ceiling, etc.

Actually that's not true. we laughed once at it, but we just ignore it because I mean, WTAF do you say to someone who wants you to 'suck their ladystick as they're a lesbian' Shudder.

So, one laugh, eye roll, what would be considered 'transphobic' by MN standards, and we moved on.

I pity the women online who get so upset by it. It's so much easier when you're out of school, because you can just stay away from abusive weirdos!

Going back to the discussion of the psychology/ sexuality if transgenderism:

The folk who have body dysphoria and have top/bottom surgery - is surgery the best way to "solve" a mental health issue? A man cannot become a woman, and their "new" body will always be imperfect - even if transed pre puberty - is this not an imperfect, even cruel solution? For a medical professional to remove/modify healthy functioning body parts to create a poor facsimile of what the person desires? Is it also reasonable to do this for the transabled, or the otherkin?

The shouty TAs who make no/minimal effort to pass are they what used to be transvestites? Dressing up for a sexual kick rather than for dysphoric reasons? Or is this also a mental health issue?

Is any of it a.mental health issue?

Helen that rule always made sense to me, in an imperfect way.

However, the way things are now I'd argue there is definitely a economic advantage to trans bathrooms. No one can exactly deny the money part now, at least!

Jeez..that is barbaric. Why do some men refuse to accept that not everyone wants your cock?! It is not the holy grail, it will not bring world peace and no it is not the most attractive part of the body!

Is any of it a mental health issue?

Short answer. yes.

Long answer. I'll come back to you. It's complicated.

I like TOOF and MOOF. they sound delightfully sneery.

I'm a FOOF, and you're a MOOF or TOOF. No one can actually say it is wrong, can they?

My group has exploded with this.

Shit...I forgot BOOFS

Most people wouldn't give a crap if someone who looked like a woman used the womens toilet. I mean, noone would ever know anyway would they. Also some transwomen look more 'womanly' than I do

15858-presscdn-0-65.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Treechada-Petcharat.jpg

First image I come up with, not entirely sure who she is, but an example^

Most (again I assume) would have a huge issue with a big hairy biker bloke using the womens, then justifying it by saying he was a woman in his brain, then accusing anyone who disagreed as being transphobic.

Now that I'm a high ranking ministry official, I don't need to leave socks out. I have legislated for better rights for house elves. Regardless of their gender identity

Most (again I assume) would have a huge issue with a big hairy biker bloke using the womens, then justifying it by saying he was a woman in his brain, then accusing anyone who disagreed as being transphobic.

I would after I'd stopped laughing.

The solution here is to just walk out. No one can force you to stay, and if anyone is trying to get a sexual kick out of it, rather than just, yknow, weeing will get bored very, very quickly.

Special, next time someone calls you a TERF, you can correct them

"I'm not a TERF, I'm a FOOF. So shut up you MOOF"

But if I'm wrong, you're not trying to change anyone's opinion, that's fine and I'll disengage with you.

You're entitled to your opinion, as I said earlier, as am I. If that's the case, then why argue that I was ignoring other contributions? It seems contradictory to suggest that you're not interested in changing other people's opinions, and also stating that my non-engagement with other contributions demonstrated I wasn't interested in changing my opinion. Those seem to be mutually exclusive positions - if you weren't interested in me changing my mind, why complain that I wasn't changing my mind based on other contributions?

I'm so sorry, I've totally lowered the intellect of the thread

Cis-elves?

Yes, TBH I'd roar with laughter if in Ada Wells/hairy biker came into the bathroom. If there has ever been a transwoman in a toilet I've been in, I haveb't noticed. But if a quite obvious man came in, I honestly don't know if I'd be able to not laugh, if just from shock.

The unspoken solution in my community where there are sadly, lots of scary transwomen, is just to walk away.

Funnily enough, they got bored rather quickly and stopped by all accounts! After all sorts of abuse at a certain elderly women for quietly leaving the bathroom.

Short answer. yes.

The APA seems to disagree with such an assertion. Gender dysphoria is not, in and of itself, a mental disorder. It can't be alleviated with any psychiatric medication. Left untreated, it can lead to depression or other mood disorders, but that's evident in many non-mental health conditions, because a lack of treatment can be stressful and debilitating. The APA does not recognize gender dysphoria as a mental disorder, because it does not result in impaired mental function.

Yes I suppose laugh and walk away would be the acceptable response. But...this would be transphobic to many, no?

I lose track of the meaning of the word recently tbh

Blinks You commented on female sexuality, so I called you out on it. I know you won't ever change your opinion, that doesn't affect me in any way. But I'd like to give women reading the full picture of what goes on, not the sanitised version of the meanie gay women, and the implication that lots of lesbians/bisexuals agree, because frankly, almost none do. Statistically, I mean. As a class, I mean. I'm sure you can find random videos of objectively, what seems like 'a lot' of lesbians/bisexual women are all for corrective rape, but that's not reality. Those are very sad women, and I pity them enormously

Look how many have changed their minds already after ONE thread showing them what TRAs are doing?

Also, I called you out on not reading what other people were posting, which is basic forum etiquette, and talking 'at' people.

Somehow you have taken that to mean I care about 'opinions' and 'contributions.' I don't.

TL;DR I'm commenting for other women, not because I think you'll ever change your opinion. Nor do I care, as the law is on my side and always will be.

My safety, my kids safety comes before anyone's feelings.

Yes, they consider it transphobic, but funnily enough, they also don't go in there at the particular bathroom I'm thinking of.problem solved!

I agree with a lot that Elsa has said.

And I've found the articles posted by Lum interesting (didn't watch the video - sorry; laptop too old and too slow).

And I've found Helen's posts very useful.

I do think this is a very important discussion, because I also have loved ones who are trans, and sometimes talking things through helps to clarify my own thought about it. So I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, and not really trying to change my own either. That's why I didn't post in the Spartacus thread - I really don't think it's acceptable to describe trans women as men, but that wasn't the place for me to say so.

However, I don't share the perspective on biological observations that others have expressed, and in any case I think changing sex is primarily a legal matter. So I can say that I do think someone can change sex and in fact I know people who have changed sex.

And if some people who say they are women are in fact arseholes (eg some of the people named on the Spartacus thread), then I'd rather say that than say that they're men.

Helen - thanks for coming on the thread

Special - I'm not sure I would roar with laughter if an Ada-type came into the Ladies. Once upon a time I would have said to them that the Gents is across the hall (or wherever), because it would have been helpful in correcting a mistake. But now, I dunno. I understand that if Ada stood there and said that they were entitled to be there because they were a woman, there's nothing that I could do to ask them to leave (or ask someone else in authority to ask them to leave), unless they were obviously engaged in something dodgy - ie after a crime had been committed. I'd probably end up leaving as quickly as I could and then fuming because I had been forced out of a women only space by a man.

*Does anyone else think an excellent Eminem song could be written about MOOFs, FOOFs etc?

Yo yo yo.*

Friend's brilliant comment on the FOOF thread

Laughing stopped them from coming back though. Like I said, I'd laugh from shock. I laughed at my nanna's funeral

Yeah, if it happened to me, I'd be pissed off as hell, but I've honestly found the best solution is simply to ignore TRAs/scary transwomen.
Which is how, until a few days ago, even I didn't know how much worse things had gotten in the five-seven years I was at uni. And that was obviously horrible!

Adjustable - my personal take is that a man can become a transwoman, but cannot become a woman. We do need terminology for someone who has gone through SRS, but I think it should usually only apply to someone who has taken - or is in the process of taking - that step. Not someone who has just decided that they now identify as a woman and therefore they are

Transowmen definitely exist.

Men with penises, however, are men. Not transwomen.