Seriously MN this is fucking bullshit.

[DeathAnTaxes]

Message from MNHQ: We're afraid we felt we had to delete this thread as we feel like it has strayed way outside of our Talk Guidelines. We do regard deliberate, malicious misgendering (as opposed to accidental slip ups) as transphobic. Thank you to everyone who took the time to post thoughtfully here. We understand folks will want to talk more about pronouns and trans issues in general on another thread perhaps - but we would ask that you do so in way that doesn't rehash or repeat this thread. Thanks.&Message from MNHQ: We're afraid we felt we had to delete this thread as we feel like it has strayed way outside of our Talk Guidelines. We do regard deliberate, malicious misgendering (as opposed to accidental slip ups) as transphobic. Thank you to everyone who took the time to post thoughtfully here. We understand folks will want to talk more about pronouns and trans issues in general on another thread perhaps - but we would ask that you do so in way that doesn't rehash or repeat this thread. Thanks.

ONE poster wanted to discuss pronouns and they won. A thread about women being shut down by transactivists was shut down by a ta.

Fucking brilliant.

AND FOR THE RECORD THE PERSON'S PRONOUNS ARE 'THEY'

A vile misogynist was "misgendered" be being called he, because we can not even discuss who is doing this.. It is he's. It is men.

they was not even a thing 5 years ago. If I today demanded my pronouns be "Vagina owner" would everyone have to respect that?

As a side note, why do MNHQ keep talking about folk/folks ? I feel as though we're getting told off by George Bush , perhaps for misunderestimating something.

Thank you for all the lovely comments re DD. I've passed them on and she is genuinely moved. She says she wishes RL was more like MN.

This is one of the reasons I'm so angry that MN keeps silencing us - this feels like one of the only true safe spaces left to talk honestly about our fears and anger on this topic. But we keep getting shut down, even here.

DD really is an amazing person - seeing her terrified and in tears over this was awful. Seeing her confidence shattered, her conviction and good work come to nothing, her becoming isolated and scared to speak has been heartbreaking. She was a child yet was being victimised and bullied by grown men who 'identified' as women. I hope with all my heart that one day she can rebuild her confidence and carry on doing what she loved in some capacity, but if the current climate persists that won't happen.

The Cotton Ceiling is NOT about “men” getting into women’s pants, it’s about women born male (i.e. trans women) being seen & accepted as women, equal to cis women

First, the term 'cis' is offensive and I consider it to be a personal attack.

Second, I'm sure that was Ada's reasoning when they wanted lesbians who didn't want to have sex with biological males to be expelled for transphobia. The cotton ceiling is rape culture thinly disguised as political correctness.

Moll, what happened to your daughter is outrageous and sickening. I'm so sorry to hear it. How appalling.

Please note HQ - Ada wants to be "they". I'm using the right pronoun.

Moll, women and girls like your daughter are exactly the people being let down in such a terrible way by institutions like Edinburgh University. We cannot return to a society which legally condones men controlling, abusing and making threats against women and our bodies.

Language is one of the most powerful weapons there is. If we don't examine its use critically we are opening the door to warfare. This is true of many things, but the one that we cannot speak about is the erasure of women's rights by te appropriation of our pronouns.

terfisaslur.com/

Everyone (including MNHQ) should take a look at this.

This is the sort of shit DD was getting on Twitter (I did too, but as an adult I was far better equipped to deal with it however disgusting). Some of the Twitter accounts on here were ones who abused DD and me.

This is what TAs think of us.

This is why I have no fucking time for any of this shit.

The Cotton Ceiling is NOT about “men” getting into women’s pants, it’s about women born male (i.e. trans women) being seen & accepted as women, equal to cis women

The views collected for this site (thank you whoever posted the link today) make clear that to some it's not about equality at all, it truly is about demanding unquestioned superiority and recognition as superior and first in all ways. It isn't about sharing anything. It's about hand it over now, all of it, or else. I don't think I've ever before seen the like of the venom, violence and hatred collected on the five pages of this site, it's terrifying. And apparently it's legal.... fgs why?!

terfisaslur.com/centering-trans-people-in-all-discussions/

All women are female; all females are women. We now know this isn’t true, and there are two types of women: cis and trans. Both are equally “women”

Is this what Mumsnet HQ believe?

Moll, best wishes to your daughter. I have a young daughter and part of what keeps me going is the awareness that she's growing up in a world where people with testicles are winning women's Olympic events, the abortion activists I've been supporting for 25 years are telling me that men can get pregnant, and the raging cause celebre from my feminist friends on social media is the burkini ban. ( ftr I don't particularly agree with the burkini ban but fuck's sake - if you call yourself a feminist you might focus on fgm or support women from restrictive cultures who are trying to assert themselves, not turn some patriarchal bullshit into a sign of "empowerment"). I believe feminism has badly lost its way.

To add hurriedly as I am now scared stiff to try and express anything about this at all:

It isn't about sharing anything - I will clarify as I am meaning SPECIFICALLY AND ONLY TO THOSE WHO WROTE THESE TWEETS AND MESSAGES, it isn't about sharing anything.

Cotton ceiling, what happened to Moll's daughter. This is all actual violence. Yet women are the ones being called TERFs and bigots and being accused of violence and murder simply for saying he.

"Language is one of the most powerful weapons there is" - yes!

Read the handmaidens tale (or 1984!) to see where we are heading when words are taken away from us.

Posting in huge support for the OP.

And noting that I think we actually need a debate about what 'transphobia' actually is. We are in a situation where activists seem to be able to define that term to mean anything that suits them, and then go on to use it to decry and silence anyone who says anything they don't like. We need a much more nuanced discussion about this, because otherwise, if MNHQ are using a definition as set by women-hating transactivists, we are lost before we start.

It reminds me of the heyday of McCarthyism where being called 'unAmerican' was the most damning insult, bandied around by those in the right to criticise anyone they didn't agree with, and you were practically deemed guilty the moment you were accused. So it is with transphobic as currently defined.

Moll

Three members of older generations of my family are gay and expressed to me how lucky I was to be able to come out at the time I could when they had been so afraid in their time as young adults.

It is heartbreaking that the next generation on has less freedom and safety than those in the past.

Adding my support. It is fucking mental and damaging. MNHQ, women are your core demographic, why doesn't it feel like you are supporting their rights?

"There are two types of women: cis and trans"

No, there are women and there are people born male who identify as women and wish to be treated as such.

There's no need to use 'cis' to refer to women. Please refrain from using it. I am not a cis woman. I am a woman.

Could I ask what 'cis' means please?

I am not a fucking cis woman. I am a woman.

Christ alive.

It's some made up bullshit, the use of which is an attempt to belittle and degrade women.

Where are people quoting from, I don't see cis posts?!

It's from the link that Adjustable posted unthread.

Another one who feels 'misgendered' by being called 'cis'. I am a biological woman. I wear both 'womens' and 'mens' clothes. I have a variety of interests including cars, extreme sports, football and DIY. I have long hair but don't wear make up. Just because I have tits doesn't mean I want them looked at. Just because I have a vagina I don't want it violated. And I sure as hell am not 'privileged' by my endo/adeno/fibroid ridden uterus.