Seriously MN this is fucking bullshit.

[DeathAnTaxes]

Message from MNHQ: We're afraid we felt we had to delete this thread as we feel like it has strayed way outside of our Talk Guidelines. We do regard deliberate, malicious misgendering (as opposed to accidental slip ups) as transphobic. Thank you to everyone who took the time to post thoughtfully here. We understand folks will want to talk more about pronouns and trans issues in general on another thread perhaps - but we would ask that you do so in way that doesn't rehash or repeat this thread. Thanks.&Message from MNHQ: We're afraid we felt we had to delete this thread as we feel like it has strayed way outside of our Talk Guidelines. We do regard deliberate, malicious misgendering (as opposed to accidental slip ups) as transphobic. Thank you to everyone who took the time to post thoughtfully here. We understand folks will want to talk more about pronouns and trans issues in general on another thread perhaps - but we would ask that you do so in way that doesn't rehash or repeat this thread. Thanks.

ONE poster wanted to discuss pronouns and they won. A thread about women being shut down by transactivists was shut down by a ta.

Fucking brilliant.

AND FOR THE RECORD THE PERSON'S PRONOUNS ARE 'THEY'

A vile misogynist was "misgendered" be being called he, because we can not even discuss who is doing this.. It is he's. It is men.

they was not even a thing 5 years ago. If I today demanded my pronouns be "Vagina owner" would everyone have to respect that?

That's not the reason that was given for deletion, beachtrowel. Despite what ego thinks.

Thank you Toptoe for expressing what I was thinking but unable to put eloquently.

I am really offended by the meaning of "woman" being boiled down to a feeling that anyone can have. I am so, so offended by the sexist notion that because a man is sensitive, or likes wearing a dress, or doesn't like getting dirty, he must be a woman. I am offended by the idea that because I am a woman who is happy to be called a woman I must therefore be happy with the limitations of gender placed on female people. I am sick of it.

that would be good. I want to see what MNHQ have to say

I've reported and asked for a comment from MNHQ on this thread

NO it wasn't. It was about pronouns which we were welcome to 'discuss at another time'. So in other words don't discuss the actual OP again. About Ada wells the bullying man who hounded a lesbian student and called her cunt scum.

I'm wary of reporting - mn have said before that when they get a deluge of reports about one thread they often don't read them (threads have been mistakenly deleted because of this), and I don't want them assuming I am reporting to get it deleted.

Posting in support. So many posts I agree with here.

That's not the reason that was given for deletion, beachtrowel. Despite what ego thinks.

Not (from memory) was that the gist in their comment on the thread, pre-deletion. It was centred around 'deliberate misgendering' (though that's from memory so happy to be corrected)

As well as being anti-gay men and antisemetic

the trans movement is extremely problematic to women - for all the reasons on this & the so many other trans threads which have been deleted.

But as the mother of a young lesbian it is fucking terrifying. Men calling themselves women and threatening to rape lesbians for not wanting to have sex with them. Being a lesbian - not wanting to have sex with men i.e. adult human males - is something that has become very very difficult even in LGBT circles as a result of extreme misogynistic & lesbophoic bullying.

And we're not allowed to talk about it because it might upset some trans people who really don't like to hear that no, you will never be accepted as a women by many people and insisting on being called 'she' won't change that.

They need to actually read some of these threads, and try to get their heads around the fact that they are enabling men with a misogynist agenda to erode women's rights. They are a commercial website, they have social responsibility and that should be to women as much as it is to trans people.

I've reported but I hope they read the request for comment rather than just deleting.

It's not about whether they are a man or not, it's about the doubletalk about having gender neutrality but not free sexual choice. That's what worries me. And also, forcing gender neutrality when someone wants to identitfy as woman (or man). We should be able to choose both and refuse to be both if we like.

So we should be able to choose to be woman and not want penis. Or be man and not want penis. Or be woman and not want vagina. Or be man and not want vagina. Or be gender neutral and not want penis. Or be gender neutral and want penis. Or be any gender and want both. Or be any gender and want none.

It should be choice and forced upon anyone by anyone, no matter how that person identifies themselves.

Being woman and female are two different things as far as I'm concerned. I am female due to my chromosomes being xx and my hormones correlate (although of course we have all got different levels of those hormones). Others are male with xy and others are intersex with xxy or their y chromosome hasn't been fully activated. This is biology and this is sex. We can choose to change our biology through sex change operations and hormonal therapy, so we develop characteristics of another sex, but that will never change our original chromosomal makeup.

Gender is different - it's a social construct initially built on our biology and hormones but as the sexes become more equal, we are able to deconstruct gender if we please (though this is still dangerous for those individuals because there are lots of people who like it just the way it is). We should be able to call ourselves man/woman/neither. It is a social construct and can be chosen.

The only thing we can't control are our chromosomes. The rest can be altered somewhat if we choose. And that should be a choice. If Ada wants to be called 'woman' then I have no argument with that. But Ada cannot call themselves 'female'. I have a problem with Ada telling others that they are 'cuntscum' or 'Zio' or whatever other othering and categorisation they want to use because that is wrong.

So I would happily say Ada is a woman if that's what they want. But I won't go along with the idea that a female who likes vagina should be forced to accept penis. Because then Ada removes sexual choice. And that is wrong.

Ada has either got very confused about choice or they are actively trying to force people to be sexually attracted to penis. I wonder which one it is.

not forced upon

In reported asking for a proper response from the MN management team not just from whomever is on mod this morning.

Posting in support. As the mother of 2 young girls I am seriously worried about the world they are growing up in.

Ada doesn't even want to be called woman though that I have seen! Ada identifies as "trans" and uses "they/them/their", and at least part of the time seems to use their other name - Nate!

This is not about transitioning. It's freedom of choice. That's the problem. Not what pronoun or gender someone wants to call themselves. They should have that choice to call themselves a woman.

I'm glad I got to read this thread before it gets deleted. Basil and Matilda have been particularly eloquent.

But that's Ada's choice and should be defended.

So the whole deletion for misgendering thing is just a fucking farce.

It's like Jenners golf club fucking membership.

But that's Ada's choice and should be defended.

Why? Would you defend the right of a white racist to be identified as black?

As such, anyone calling Ada a woman is misgendering too.

They can have that choice to call themselves a woman. I shouldn't be forced to call them a woman when they are patently not. We have to have the language to describe oppression of women as a class by men as a class when we see it. Trans women do not face the same kind of discrimination that women do.

I am not telling Ada he can't call himself a woman.

I'm telling Ada he can't tell me I have to call him one.

He's a bloke, he's the sort of normal man who calls women cuntscum and demands they fuck him.

Sound at all familiar? It does to me.