Heads up - we're about to introduce a wee (it's really not that big) site update...

[JustineMumsnet]

Morning folks,

As some of you pointed out at the time, the new navigation bar we introduced a little while back on the desktop site sits a little uncomfortably with what goes underneath it, design-wise.

So today we're introducing a little refresh of the rest of Talk. This update is also a bit closer to the mobile version, which it currently clashes with, so those who frequently switch from desktop to mobile will get a less variable experience.

If you use Mumsnet solely on mobile or tablet: as you were! Nothing’s going to change for you.

For desktop users, the functionality is unchanged (except for the addition of a threads I'm on button on the left hand side) but the fonts will look a little different.

We realise that any change can be difficult (and not necessarily welcome!) but please do give it a few days, as very often, we find, things like this just take a little getting used to and soon enough you've moved on and won't remember the difference.

As ever, we’re really keen to have your feedback, though, so do post below with your thoughts (we’re confident that you will ). Also, if anyone fancies getting involved in the testing of this kind of stuff, do shout, we're always looking for volunteers.

We’ll switch everything over in the next hour or so - let us know what you think! We’ll keep this thread stickied in Site Stuff and Active Conversations throughout at the day.

Justine

Thank you for the update Jessica - have you also looked at changing the font for the threads? I'm finding the site easier on my desktop where I have changed the font to Times New Roman - I know its old fashioned, but it is a wider font which I find easier to read.

@ApocalypseSlough

Yep otbt still shows in advanced search

Thank you have flagged to Tech to sort asap

@OhYouBadBadKitten

Thank you for the update Jessica - have you also looked at changing the font for the threads? I'm finding the site easier on my desktop where I have changed the font to Times New Roman - I know its old fashioned, but it is a wider font which I find easier to read.

Hello, yes we're looking at the size of Roboto and also potentially a different font.

Thank you :)

A different font would be appreciated for posts

The current one is still giving me a headache when reading blocks of it and I can't read it as fast

I'm no expert, but I do have some experience working with designers on print and online content. Designers are sometimes more concerned with the aesthetics and how something looks than they are about readability. And there are changing fashions in design so a push to make content look more modern. Sometimes accessibility issues get sidelined for the overall look of a printed piece or web content. And there is definitely a youth-oriented vibe to what many designers want to achieve. I was once told by a young web designer responding to my suggestions: "Yeah, everyone over 50 thinks like that."

The current one is still giving me a headache when reading blocks of it and I can't read it as fast

Same here.

I've just been out at the park - i was reading my phone, with MN standard font on the mobile site, and managing fine with it.
now i've come back home and I'm straining to read it (still got it at 120% too) on the PC

This picture is of a google search for online readable fonts - I am having no difficulty whatsoever in reading the search return, in 100% - I don't know what the font is, or what size it is, but it's a lot lot smaller than the unreadable font that i'm looking at MN with.

from www.awaionline.com/2011/10/the-best-fonts-to-use-in-print-online-and-email/

Now, one might assume that what works on the printed page will be similar to what works on the computer screen. But that's not the case.

In order to make the little serifs appear legible, a high degree of resolution is required. The more pixels, the more details of the font you can display.

Back 10 or so years ago, the best computer screen resolution was 800 x 600 pixels – which wasn’t great for defining the intricacies of a serif font. Screen resolution has increased through the years (resolutions of 1024 x 768 pixels or greater have become the norm). This makes serif fonts more legible but still generally not as easy to read as sans-serif fonts.

Plus, now you have to consider how your site or email will look on handheld devices, such as the BlackBerry and iPhone. The latest model of iPhone 4 has a screen resolution of 960 x 640 pixels. The BlackBerry Bold 978 has a screen resolution of 480 x 360 pixels.

So online, the best font to go with is sans serif.

A 2002 study by the Software Usability and Research Laboratory concluded that:

The most legible fonts were Arial, Courier, and Verdana.
At 10-point size, participants preferred Verdana. Times New Roman was the least preferred.
At 12-point size, Arial was preferred and Times New Roman was the least preferred.
The preferred font overall was Verdana, and Times New Roman was the least preferred.

So here are your marching orders:

For easiest online reading, use Arial 12-point size and larger. If you're going smaller than 12 points, Verdana at 10 points is your best choice. If you're after a formal look, use the font "Georgia." And for older readers, use at least a 14-point font.

@ApocalypseSlough

Not rtft nor looked at it on the desktop when when I advance searched over the weekend otbt was returning results.

Quick update: we've spoken to tech and there's been no change here. OTBT is excluded from Google but not advanced search.

in this screen print montage - the MN top left and hive bottom right are hard to read.
the two others are really easy to read

more font ideas here:

www.design-by-izo.com/2010/06/07/8-excellent-fonts-for-screen-and-print/

I do have some concerns that MNHQ are being somewhat disingenuous. The advertising and other links to the right are in a larger point-size than the body of the thread.

I wonder why that might be so?

Shouting in CAPITALS and BOLD may be the way to make the threads more readable until the problems are rectified.

Maryz are you using the Font Changer extension on Chrome? If so, you don't need to alter the font for every site - you can tell FC to use default/global settings and then, when you've loaded whichever website who's font you want to alter, you can set up a custom setting just for that website.

A thread I just read looks totally different (much more readable). I honestly thought you'd fixed it or put it back to the old font. So I came bombing over here for the bug announcement... But the text on this thread is as illegible as ever.

Have I imagined it? The thread is about PILs and the OP's DH is being forced to take their 3 kids inc twins to stay with them, as otherwise the poor lamb couldn't cook during the hols whilst the OP is at work.

Is it just me??

Here

Much less white space and bigger font.

Or is it just that all the posts are short, and the OP posts loads (hence much more readable green background). Hmm.

That thread looks exactly the same as this one to me Penguins.

It all looks quite readable.

I think STOP PISSING ABOUT WITH THE FUCKING SITE about sums it up when reading it goves you headache, eye strain and nausea and it was fine before.

MNHQ - if I have done it right, this is what I am still seeing in my TIO.

By way of contrast, this is what my Last Hour page looks like - much bigger font, and I can read it with no problems at all.

My font has suddenly gone small again!

Um, Mumsnet Towers? Are you there?

I've just done the font survey thing - and I'm very glad to be asked/really appreciate it - but given the choice of two alternative fonts, both drastically worse than the current one, and then being asked to rank them...

... I would just like to protest vote here (not getting the chance on the survey), that I didn't actually want to vote for the current font being the 'best', it just wasn't as appalling as the other two. They were all awful in their own ways.

Sorry [bluch]