should we address the casual antisemitism on MN?

[thedevilinmyshoes]

I rarely venture beyond my narrow range of interests on MN these days so I don't know if it happens a lot, or if a similar level of hatred is extended to other groups, but what I saw tonight was sinister (particularly against the current backdrop of a surge in antisemitic crime in UK). I wondered if we had an agreed definition of what constitutes antisemitism or if people feel the issue is covered and handled well enough within the existing guidelines.

"I don't know what a 'Jewish society meeting' but it sounds like a gathering where everyone is on the same side - i.e. Not a debate."

Sorry, just read this properly - why would you think that? That because all attendees are Jewish, they must be all in agreement?

"because all attendees are Jewish, they must be all in agreement?"

Probably not 100% in agreement on all things, but on the same side, yes.

Their loyalties and sympathies will likely reside with the Jewish families fleeing persecution around the world and finding safety in the promised land, rather than the Palesfinian peasants who are pushed out of their homes and land to make space for them. They will probably be placing a much higher importance on the security and long-term endurance of Israel than the safety and lives of Palestinians living in the occupied territories.

Talking among your own people is fine but the real debate is with those on the other side, imho.

Love the idea that a group of Jews are likely to be in broad agreement on anything. Cote, have you heard the saying, "Two Jews, three opinions"?

No, but I try not to listen to racial prejudices, anyway.

It's not a racial prejudice, it's a cultural norm.

Nice, GrosseVache. And not anti-semitic at all.

Why is there a specific word for it?

For the same reason we have a word for Islamophobia. Because it exists, it's not uncommon and it absolutely horrible.

What a disgusting post.

The posts saying "oh, so because you haven't witnessed it it doesn't happen?". Well I am sure it does, sadly, but personally, no I haven't experienced it happening on this forum. It would be helpful to know what sort of things are classed as anti-Semitic beyond the obvious.

Wouldn't it be easier if we just abolished religion all together? It's essentially all made up anyway and no one would cause or take offense to anything to do with it because it wouldn't exist

"It's not a racial prejudice, it's a cultural norm."

Wouldn't it be easier if we just abolished religion all together? It's essentially all made up anyway and no one would cause or take offense to anything to do with it because it wouldn't exist.

Well, maybe, if you could also erase all memory of religion, Frozen-style. Antisemitism has for many centuries been about racism rather than religious differences. See, for example, the history of hook-nosed witches in popular imagery.

Abolishing all religion is a fantastic idea.

But it would do absolutely nothing to stop anti semitism.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12110578/KCLs-Student-Israel-society-attacked-by-demonstrators.html

This was just about a week ago.

You may sneer that everyone in a Jewish Society agree with each other. But surely they should be able to meet without being hassled.

Nice demonstration of the issue LaGrosse

"You may sneer that everyone in a Jewish Society agree with each other. But surely they should be able to meet without being hassled."

Of course, everyone should be able to meet and exchange opinions without being hassled. Nobody was sneering, btw, just saying that a meeting where everyone is on the same side is not the debate we talk about when we refer to shutting down debate (eg by routinely accusing critics of antisemitism).

Well those that wanted an example. LaGrosse has just demonstrated it.

It's free speech, not a demonstration of anything.

Considering how the world is these days Jewish people don't have anything to worry about. They've been through exactly what the Muslims are going through now within the last century, yet many are simply ignoring the plight of the Palestinians. Many are joining in with the labelling of Muslims as terrorists, as killers.

Islamaphobia may be a word, but it's not against the law to publish various cartoons depicting them as bombers is it? It's not against the law for presidential candidates to say they'll ban Muslims from entering their country?

I don't agree with LaGrosse's post but just so we are all clear, which part of it do you think shows hatred and prejudice towards Jewish people?

I think her post is wrong on the details but I'm not sure I see prejudice and hatred towards all Jewish people there. Just outrage towards the injustice of the Israel-Palestinian situation, albeit in a rather misplaced way. Happy to be corrected, though.

Why is there a specific word for it?

Do you object to Islamophobia being 'a word' too

"Jewish people don't have anything to worry about."

Um. You've missed the huge rise in actual violent antisemitic attacks across Europe, then? You've never had to decide, not pontificate on the internet but actually seriously sit and decide in the real world, whether to risk taking your child to a Jewish event because of the ever-present threat?

How on earth does Islamophobia (which is obviously real and obviously terrible) somehow negate the reality of antisemitism??

Considering how the world is these days Jewish people don't have anything to worry about

You're joking, surely?

"Of course, everyone should be able to meet and exchange opinions without being hassled. Nobody was sneering, btw, just saying that a meeting where everyone is on the same side is not the debate we talk about when we refer to shutting down debate (eg by routinely accusing critics of antisemitism)."

But when people regularly use intimidation and violence to force the shutdown of Jewish voices (even when they are, shock horror, talking to each other), how can that possibly be conducive to any debate? The not-so-subtle subtext is 'we will aggressively stop you from speaking', isn't it?

This is such an odd thread.

I think antisemitism is a problem worldwide.

But I don't think 'casual antisemitism' is an issue on mumsnet. At all.

The way in which people turn up to insist that anti-semitism isn't a specific phenomenon worthy of its own name is one of the ways you spot it Ubik.

Considering how the world is these days Jewish people don't have anything to worry about