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Original poster

should we address the casual antisemitism on MN?

505 replies

thedevilinmyshoes · 21/01/2016 21:32

I rarely venture beyond my narrow range of interests on MN these days so I don't know if it happens a lot, or if a similar level of hatred is extended to other groups, but what I saw tonight was sinister (particularly against the current backdrop of a surge in antisemitic crime in UK). I wondered if we had an agreed definition of what constitutes antisemitism or if people feel the issue is covered and handled well enough within the existing guidelines.

OP posts:

BertrandRussell · 23/01/2016 09:54

"The way in which people turn up to insist that anti-semitism isn't a specific phenomenon worthy of its own name is one of the ways you spot it Ukik"

This is tricky. I want .to say "one person has turned up saying that". But is that an example of denial?

PurpleHairAndPearls · 23/01/2016 09:54

Well I think LaGrosseVache has demonstrated perfectly that, as in the rest of society, some users hold anti-Semitic opinions and aren't afraid to voice them.

I think their comments should stand and not be deleted, as even though they are hateful, they prove the point a lot of people have been making. As pp said earlier, it's hard to provide specific examples after the fact other than "this post has been deleted".

Does anyone remember the Jewish bankers thread that was deleted - quite some time ago?

In fact, this is outside of MN but I have just remembered when, on a BSL course, we were told the sign for Jew is a handshape mimicking a large hook nose. This was in 2009. After some research DH found that the more up to date sign is the same as the sign for menorah (the lamp stand). Sorry it's not a MN example but it illustrates nicely the stereotypes people hold and express without thinking.

lljkk · 23/01/2016 10:15

You can't stop people from having offensive opinions.
Or registering on MN. There's no filter to keep them out before the first time they say something awful.
The offending post was quickly reported & removed (I gather).
Not sure what else OP wants except mindreading technology.

And we all have at least one offensive opinion anyway. Sheesh.

Branleuse · 23/01/2016 10:20

I havent seen anti-semitic posts in anything like the same way that ive seen anti-islamic sentiment. Ive seen some anti catholic posts too, and lots of mockery of paganism over the years

I think religion and religious practices should totally be up for discussion

DioneTheDiabolist · 23/01/2016 11:12

There is nothing wrong with being anti-religion.
That is your opinion Bert, it is not one that I agree with. I think that antisemitism is wrong. I consider anti-religion to be antisemitism and islamophobia only applied to all people with faith. It is unpleasant when applied to individual groups. It is misanthropic when applied to more than half the world population.

BertrandRussell · 23/01/2016 11:17

There is a difference between being anti religion- which is fine, and anti religious people, which isn't.

DioneTheDiabolist · 23/01/2016 11:19

Wouldn't it be easier if we just abolished religion altogether.

Abolishing all religion is a fantastic idea.

Queenbean and Bert, how do you propose to do this? Which religions would you start with? Can neither of you see the arrogance in these statements?

BertrandRussell · 23/01/2016 11:22

I don't propose to do it at all. It's impossible. There are lots of impossible things I think would be a good idea.

fidel1ne · 23/01/2016 11:42

This is tricky. I want .to say "one person has turned up saying that". But is that an example of denial?

It hasn't been a horde of deniers on this thread, it's a true.

There was a thread 2 or 3 months ago about an OP who had been on the receiving end of anti-semitic remarks at work and that thread attracted a veritable rash of posts similar to LaGrosse's.

Ubik1 · 23/01/2016 11:46

It can feel like a medieval village on here sometimes when people start talking about statements indicating the poster has a 'particular mindset'

We'll accuse you of thinking certain things in order to run an argument.
For example: 'have you heard the saying two Jews, three opinions?'

What mindset is that indicative of?

DioneTheDiabolist · 23/01/2016 11:57

Bert, if you think it is such a great idea, do you not think that it should be tried? Do you not see the intolerance and arrogance in your statement?

CoteDAzur · 23/01/2016 12:22

Was John Lennon also ignorant and arrogant when he said "Imagine no religion"?

fidel1ne · 23/01/2016 12:22

What mindset is that indicative of?

An affectionate, Jewish one, I think.

Queenbean · 23/01/2016 12:49

I was being slightly facetious in suggesting that religion should be abolished.

But I certainly think that some barbaric practises should be looked at. Just because something was done historically, it doesn't mean that it's morally right to do so. I've yet to see any justification for male circumcision and sucking of a baby's penis in some cases. Just accusations of anti-Semitic behaviour in questioning that.

nauticant · 23/01/2016 12:51

What mindset is that indicative of?

It is indicative of the right mindset. Therefore, the post can stand.

Had it been written by someone with the wrong mindset it would have to be deleted.

See, it's that simple.

StonedMoses · 23/01/2016 13:25

Queenbean.
Is that a typo?
"Sucking" ? Seriously?_

BertrandRussell · 23/01/2016 13:30

"Bert, if you think it is such a great idea, do you not think that it should be tried? Do you not see the intolerance and arrogance in your statement?"

I think it would be nice if there were unicorns too- or everyone had their own jet pack or there was world peace...........

Why is thinking it would be a good idea if there were no religions any more intolerant and arrogant than thinking it would be a good idea if everyone followed one?

BertrandRussell · 23/01/2016 13:31

I'm pretty sure nobody does the sucking thing any more.

StonedMoses · 23/01/2016 13:33

WTF?
I'm seriously concerned about the accusation of perceived child abuse.
Care to expand?

JassyRadlett · 23/01/2016 13:34

'I think the world would be a better place without religions' and 'I respect and defend the right of people to hold and practise religious beliefs without persecution or discrimination' are not mutually exclusive viewpoints, you know.

Ubik1 · 23/01/2016 13:34

See, it's that simple.

wickedlazy · 23/01/2016 13:40

Was in our local the other day, when a guy I'd just met called my male mate a yid, as an insult. I sat there for a few minutes thinking (hadn't heard that word for years) then asked what was wrong with being Jewish, and he just gave me a dirty look. I met a neo nazi's son once. His dad made him dress in a replica black ss uniform and cap and parade around city centre. His mates started bringing spare clothes in for him, jackets to wear over and stuff. This new guy says anything in my presence again I'll make a dick out of him. Wish I'd said more last time.

MangosteenSoda · 23/01/2016 13:41

Never noticed any anti-semitism on MN.

It does seem, in RL in general, if you're not convinced about infant circumcision or if you disagree with the policies of the current Israeli leadership you get slapped with the anti-semite label. Which fucks me right off as I'm half jewish and know numerous jewish Israelis who hold the same opinions.

wickedlazy · 23/01/2016 13:42

When I was a teen I'd seen the guy walking about in the uniform, but was ages before I was introduced to him by a mutual friend. Felt so sorry for him.

BertrandRussell · 23/01/2016 13:53

Stonemoses- an antiquated ritual no longer in practice.

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