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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

OFFICIAL MNHQ THREAD on posts about suicide, troll-hunting and related matters

833 replies

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:10

Hello

There have been so many threads about this over the past few days, and so many divergent points of view - and so much upset - that we'd really like to have the discussion in one place rather than in many different threads all over the boards.

For those who haven't heard yet: we are actively reviewing our policy about threads regarding suicidal feelings and suicidal intent. We are seeking expert input from outside organisations including the Samaritans. Once we have that we will come back and have a further discussion with MNers about the way forward.

We'll be here to talk on the thread throughout the day, but do please note that we WILL delete troll-hunting posts for all the obvious reasons. So PLEASE do not use this thread to make insinuations about identifiable posters - keep it general please.

Re: Wombat: we understand that some reporters had concerns, but at the same time this poster had been around for years with a very consistent posting history. We absolutely do not have any concrete reason to disbelieve her. However, her thread had been immensely upsetting and triggering for many users, and has prompted a site-wide discussion about how we handle these threads. Once her husband had posted that she was at home with him and under the care of RL professionals it really seemed best all round to delete the thread.

We contacted Wombat at the time to explain our deletion and we still feel that for many very good reasons this is best sorted out off-board between us and her; we've asked her again to reply to our email and we will happily take it from there.

We also think that this whole case is a very good illustration of why we have no-trollhunting rules. We understand that some of you find them frustrating, but for every correct troll-call, there's an incorrect one. Being called a troll in public when you're giving an honest account of deeply upsetting real-life circumstances can be devastating for people.

Equally, we do 'get' that there are a lot posters and threads at the moment that seem deeply suspicious. We are on the front foot with this and have been being pretty pro-active at closing things down when they are reported to us and when we can see that things aren't adding up, particularly if they are new users.

So we need you to keep reporting and NOT break troll-hunting rules on the boards unless MNHQ itself has said publicly that we are confident that someone was a deliberate trouble-maker.

The namechange/sock-puppeting thing is extremely easy for us to spot when it's reported. It's not a judgement call - it's black and white and it's the work of a moment for us to spot it and deal with it.

OP posts:
RebeccaMumsnet · 28/10/2014 11:35

@trufflesnout

Rowan when do you expect to hear back from the Samaritans with their opinion of how to handle suicide threads?

We are hopeful we we will hear back by Friday truffle, but can't be sure.

PuddingandPie1 · 28/10/2014 11:57

I 100% agree with Dinglethdragon's rules and I also agree with her comments on troll hunting. The serial offenders are well known to most of us: as are their sock-puppets!

ATombWithoutAFoof · 28/10/2014 11:57

Here it is, Chip

LightastheBreeze · 28/10/2014 11:59

OneSkinnyChip Thread is in Chat not Relationships, its still there but closed because of 1000 posts.

LightastheBreeze · 28/10/2014 12:00

x post with ATomb

Modestine · 28/10/2014 12:06

Agree with Dinglethdragon and PuddingandPie1.

ElkTheory · 28/10/2014 13:50

Part of the problem, I think, is that MNHQ seems to operate with a very narrow definition of what constitutes trolling but a very broad definition of what constitutes troll-hunting.

IMO, there should be absolutely nothing wrong with saying, "What a minute, that story doesn't add up, there are obvious inconsistencies." To suggest that every word of every post must be accepted as gospel truth and not questioned in any way is a ludicrous position. And a pretty unsustainable one.

Dinglethdragon · 28/10/2014 15:54

BUT stories don't need to add up - people want to protect their privacy by tweaking where they live, how many dcs they have, whether they are dd or ds, whether they have a dog or cat - that's all fine and surely is usually not material to the message when someone is looking for support because their 'd'h is being an arse Confused.

I certainly don't keep to a consistent story re, my personal situation when I'm talking about my exHs behaviour - I wouldn't want my own dc to be able to recognise anything. It doesn't mean that what I write about him is not true. Obviously if I was asking advice about the dog and I'd really got a cat then it would be a material fact Wink

ScaryZ · 28/10/2014 16:03

I would be very happy with Dingle's "rules" if everyone stuck to them.

But Rule 3 (Assume others are being nice and honest) is just ridiculous on mn atm, because it seems to me that a very large number of posters don't stick to Rule 2 (Be Honest).

It's not a matter of tweaking. It's a matter of the entire thing being made up - evidenced by impossible situations and complete contradiction.

I mean, if an op wrote "I went to Mars on my holidays last week, and we crashed into the sun on the way, aibu to sue the holiday company", somebody saying "do holiday companies really organise travel to Mars?" would be deleted for troll-hunting.

wooooosualsuspect · 28/10/2014 16:06

Troll hunters have sock puppets?

Oh behave.

emotionsecho · 28/10/2014 16:08

I'm in a bit of a quandary re the troll hunting tbh, as I am actually grateful to those whose trolldar is sharp for pointing out or hinting that all may not be what it seems. Frequently I will re-read the OP and subsequent updates and think, "Yes, I missed that".

If I posted something and someone queried the veracity of it, it wouldn't bother me to perhaps clarify on thread or behind the scenes with MNHQ.

I find the letting troll threads run for whatever reason far more damaging. In the recent questionable Marbles thread, a number of posters were extremely invested in the thread, giving advice and cheering on from the sidelines, speculating endlessly, it was all rather peurile.

On the subject of extreme crisis or suicide threads, to add to my previous post MN is more than just a chat forum it is a business should they allow a poster to post whilst in the process of committing suicide and it leads to the ultimate conclusion the fall-out business wise for MN will be unrecoverable. The media shit storm will be immense and I would predict that advertisers would drop MN like a hot potato.

Agree with everyone else who has said that MNHQ need to set rules taking advice from other bodies and then need to implement those rules 100% of the time without exception. Indeed some will like the rules some won't but what no-one will like is a lack of direction and inconsistent implementation of rules.

wooooosualsuspect · 28/10/2014 16:09

And if a story doesn't add up, I'm gonna call it.

You can call that troll hunting if you like, if it suits your agenda.

wooooosualsuspect · 28/10/2014 16:13

There is not a cat in hells chance I'm going to assume everyone is telling the truth on the internet.

MiddletonPink · 28/10/2014 16:13

Why not report it to HQ then leave the thread?

wooooosualsuspect · 28/10/2014 16:19

I rarely report any more. There doesn't seem any point.

MiddletonPink · 28/10/2014 16:21

But calling troll does nothing either other than stirs up trouble.

wooooosualsuspect · 28/10/2014 16:28

I usually just avoid the troll threads tbh.

ScaryZ · 28/10/2014 16:32

I'm not saying it's ok to call "bollocks" on threads (with a few exceptions, obviously Grin).

But you should be able to say "did the nurse really say that" or "I didn't think they gave you arsenic for headaches" or " buses in London run all night, don't they" without everyone assuming you are calling troll. Sometimes you are, literally, clarifiying a point.

Most genuine posters are happy to say "oops, I meant X not Y" and the conversation moves on.

If an op says "you troll-hunters are at me, my life is so awful and you are picking on me, you are all being so meeeeeeean to me" but doesn't engage, there is every chance they aren't engaging in the conversation because they can't.

Reporting is a waste of time these days. Every report gets the reply "we have no reason to believe ..." Then a week later it suddenly disappears with the message "op may not be all she says".

It's weird.

ScaryZ · 28/10/2014 16:33

I hide them too.

Or put them on watch and then they disappear.

Dinglethdragon · 28/10/2014 16:40

I assume most of what I read online might not be true but behave towards those posting it as if it were true because I have no way of knowing. No-one is suggesting a thought police that prevents anyone from being skeptical - it's troll hunting behaviour that is destructive, not the skepticism underlying it. A healthy dose of skepticism is essential to online survival IMO.

Dinglethdragon · 28/10/2014 16:42

which sounds like I'm not being consistent with my guidelines - so I would want to modify "assume others are being nice and honest" to "act as though others are being nice and honest".

Trolls want drama - just don't give it to them!

wooooosualsuspect · 28/10/2014 16:47

They get more drama from the pom pom waving,place marking for updates posters.

ATombWithoutAFoof · 28/10/2014 16:55

I find the letting troll threads run for whatever reason far more damaging. In the recent questionable Marbles thread, a number of posters were extremely invested in the thread, giving advice and cheering on from the sidelines, speculating endlessly, it was all rather peurile.

Blimey, if we're not allowed to be puerile then it's time to give up. Of course people were invested, in a funny caper kind of way. Nobody will have been damaged or upset by that thread. It was an entertaining little saga that some of us enjoyed reading.

If a story doesn't add up, I'm gonna call it. Even on a jolly thread where people are clearly having a laugh, and again, nobody is being hurt or conned out of their life savings? Why would you do that?

2shoeprintsintheblood · 28/10/2014 16:59

i think mn hq should concentrate on getting rid of the trolls, I was well pissed off to be caught by one the other day, I even pm's her, ffs who starts a thread about caring for someone with sn, and makes it up.

as long as trolls and troll threads are allowed you will have people calling troll.
I think calling them troll hunters is wrong as well, I can't imagine they just go hunting for trolls
seems to me, trolls get more thread space and concern from mn hq, that normal posters.

wooooosualsuspect · 28/10/2014 17:02

If blatant trolly threads are left up, it will just encourage other people to troll for the lulz.

Especially in the relationship topic. But if HQ are happy for posters to make stories up that's up to them.

It's their site.