TDWP and recent goings-on

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We thought it would be useful to explain our understanding of what occurred last week between Zombie, Footsteps/TDWP, Rhubarb etc to try to clear up any misunderstandings.

When the situation started to develop last week, we absolutely did not know that Footsteps was TDWP. We unearthed something to suggest that she was near midnight on the night that everything was kicking off. At that point, one MNer was waiting in a public place to meet up with her, and we had been told by Zombie and by Nom that the police were aware of the rendezvous details and were standing by to help if anything went wrong.

We could see from some PMs flying around that posters were saying that the crime reference number checked out, and that the refuge had confirmed they had a space for her, so at this point we thought the best course was to keep channels of communication open. So we didn't ban Footsteps again at that point, despite having realised who she was. We did re-ban her once things had settled down and we had been told she was in a safe place. Given past history, TDWP is not a poster we would consider allowing back to Mumsnet permanently.

At various points throughout the evening we were in phone or text contact with Zombie and with Rhubarb, mostly trying to establish (as far as we could) what was going on and whether people were behaving safely. FWIW, we thought at the time - and still do - that it was a hugely risky thing to do, and not something we would advise or encourage. We would never recommend that any MNer goes into a situation like this, particularly not on her own. As most of you will know, we remind posters regularly that not everyone on the internet is who and what they say they are. We're pulling together some content on internet safety for adults and hope to publish that soon.

We asked Rhubarb at the time (before we had conclusive evidence about Footsteps's identity) whether she thought the person Zombie was meeting was a previously banned poster, and she said that she had no reason to think it was.

Pretty much everything else took place off-board and via channels that we have no access to - so beyond this account we aren't able to say with certainty what has gone on.

Thanks for the reply Rowan.

Nom, no offence intended to you just now - thank you for your reply too .

Wow. Messy.

No problem Monica.

@DrankSangriaInThePark

Laptops/PCs/mobiles/tablets/free wifi zones.

I have an expat shield for example. I could be Sangria on one ip address then log into my expat thingy and become Trolly McTroll. Without shifting my bum off this seat.

I so want TrollyMcTroll as my user name now.

It might well be that TDWP is a vulnerable individual who was at risk, its very difficult to know from the outside. I remember the whole WWC situation and by the end she did seem to come over as somebody with some very real problems; as opposed to the random ones she was making up.

I just think that professional help is the way to go.

Wtf is it going to take before people realise that driving out in the middle of the night to meet up with a complete stranger you know only from a random username on the internet is nothing short of idiotic? What would have happened if this poster hadn’t been genuinely in a dv scenario (and we can only assume that she is at this point, she had previous for making up dv, for posting pretending to be her dh who had found her posts, etc etc she was a long-standing troll of many years here on mn... But worse, what if she hadn’t been a she and had in fact been the axe/hammer wielding maniac?

I get that people feel they should go out and help others in distress, I even get that long-standing posters may discuss off board how to help someone in distress, and knowing rhubarb on here for several years I certainly don’t think she is to blame for any of this, the poster who drove out to get tdwp did so of her own free will after all.

But seriously, when someone posts some drama on here there is every chance that it’s not real. And every time someone agrees to drive out in the dead of night to collect a random stranger it increases the chances that someone with far more sinister motives will use this forum as a means to lure in unsuspecting and potentially vulnerable victims.

IMO this is one of the reasons why I don’t believe that gently voicing suspicion of why all does not appear as it seems on a thread rather than the underlying reporting that needs to go on. Because in the meantime people can be talking off board and mn hq are oblivious, and no-one dares voice their suspicions....

Thank you for the clarification Rowan. And and for MNHQ, I would hate to be trying to untangle this mess.

"The insistance that it was all great, it had a happy ending, we've saved someone is getting my goat." it wasn't great. she was a long-standing troll. For all we know it still may not have been true, god knows she's made up enough stuff before.

I agree with all of what LtEve said, except I would like to see threads locked and left. Much of aftermath would be avoided.

I don't think that it is that one poster lies or misrepresents what went on. We were all on that thread, and had different assessments of the situation as it was taking place.

We should leave the threads up so that everyone can make up their own minds, based on what went on.

"The insistance that it was all great, it had a happy ending, we've saved someone is getting my goat."

I don't think anyone IS saying that.

I know everyone involved has been very upset this week.

Rhubarb doesn't deserve all this nonsense.

There are two separate issues, 1) whether or not Rhubarb knew that Foots was TDWP or not, and 2) the sheer fucking idiocy of encouraging people to intervene in the real lives of complete strangers from the internet, given the potentially limitless risks that entails. The former, meh, whatever. The latter, dear god no one should be putting themselves or other people at risk that way.

You aren't saying it now you all know you were had Nom.

But you were all saying it last Friday on the (conveniently?) deleted freds.

Maryz - I think from reading the threads last week (and fwiw it did make me think of TDWP - thought I was imagining it all till others said it too)
Rhubarb offered the use of her house for the weekend. Maybe not entirely sensible but from a good heart. Separately zombie decided to go get TDWP/Footsteps - not sure how that happened as I don't remember her on the thread. Again not sensible but from a good heart. It seemed to me that those two actions were separate and rhubarb only knew when zombie had already set off.

I think Rhubarb got a hammering from lots of people rather unfairly as she didn't arrange for zombie to head off.

Yes we are lucky it all worked out ok.

A suggestion on the heads n the night that MNHQ should have someone from women's aid on call is a good one.

Posters were panicking that the refuge wouldn't arrange transport - TDWP had apparently arranged a bed in a refuge in an other area for th following night and had nowhere to go that night. A better idea would have been a room in a Premier Inn or something.

We've got quite a lot of sympathy with those who say the threads should have been left up; we'd have liked to leave them up too. But we had two posters - one of whom was apparently in a women's refuge having fled her abusive ex, and one of whom had said abusive ex ringing her mobile and knowing her RL name - telling us that leaving those threads up would compromise their physical safety.

In those circs, given that from the little bits we could see we certainly couldn't say the risk wasn't real, we really felt we had no choice but to delete.

"it increases the chances that someone with far more sinister motives will use this forum as a means to lure in unsuspecting and potentially vulnerable victims."

Indeed and also the risk of mumsnetters encouraging a possibly very vulnerable person to PM personal information to some random poster who seems quite nice and who they think they can vouch for - but who no-one knows in RL. It's really irresponsible.

I'd just like to say that Rhubarb is undoubtedly and completely not a troll. Otherwise she'd never have been able to invite me round for tea...

one of whom was apparently in a women's refuge having fled her abusive ex, and one of whom had said abusive ex ringing her mobile and knowing her RL name - telling us that leaving those threads up would compromise their physical safety.
Surely is at the very core of everything, you may well believe someone is in danger but you let the Police deal with it, the abusive ex will now always know the name of the second poster who I presume is Zombie.

Nobody thinks Rhubarb is a troll.

Sangria If you think i am troll, why don't you just bloody well say so?

And yes, coming at it from the other side.....not only should MNers not be racing off in their batman costumes to save the world, but nor should vulnerable women be PMing random MNers with their phone numbers either. It could be Batman waiting to save you on that fred, or it could be Mr Hammer himself.

Yet again, as many have said, we would all go absolutely batshit if our children did it. Yet it's OK for us? Nooooo.

Eh?

I don't.

Unless you are DWP/Tilsunbeams.

I think they are.