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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Did you ban John Hemming (the MP) for outing me ?

999 replies

CarpeVinum · 21/12/2013 23:47

Cos he isn't on The Thread.

And I'd like to know why.

I am immaginging that the party whip we've been phoning, emailing and twittering has tied him up and run off with his keyboard.

Can I hang on to that fantasy, or did you ban him ?

It's not the end of the world to me that he posted my twitter account, knowing it was me and knowing it was my real name. But I will quickly drum up some minding if required to purge MN of his presence.

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PacificDingbat · 29/12/2013 16:52

I am slightly overwhelmed by MmeDefarge's on-line acumen Shock.

Sorry, I wandered off (had to force offspring x4 to local park in an attempt to prevent them from murdering each other or me them ).

I think I'll start that list from the bottom and work my way up? Surely, it does not hurt if there is some overlap?

CarpeVinum · 29/12/2013 16:55

Pacific I am doingnthis list,up to Vivvienne B....something You want to start at the bottom ? Meet me in the middle ?

www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=Member-Services%2FPageLayout&cid=1223092734466&pagename=BCC%2FCommon%2FWrapper%2FInlineWrapper

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PacificDingbat · 29/12/2013 17:13

Yep, that sounds like a plan Smile

RedKites · 29/12/2013 17:23

Have been lurking supportively but haven't had anything to say til now. Maybe try tweeting the guy who does the Bloggerheads site - he's interested in both politics and social media so might be his kind of thing?

CarpeVinum · 29/12/2013 17:34

I am up to Reg Cornish. Slowest website in history of internetkind.

Red Thanks I'll get right on to it, anything to take a break from mass emails for five mintues. Grin

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WestmorlandPigInBlanket · 29/12/2013 17:36

i'm trawling all four/ five threads doing a chronology of events to email out to people I feel it needs to be raised with. Will post a link once its done.

WestmorlandPigInBlanket · 29/12/2013 17:37

unfortunately most of the interesting bits have been deleted.

CarpeVinum · 29/12/2013 17:44

I've finsihed the Cs

Most seem to be on holdiay til the 4th of Jan judgeing by the automated replies, but maybe they read on their phone or something.

Birmingham has an awful lot of councillors.

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PacificDingbat · 29/12/2013 18:12

I've only just done the Ss Blush

Too many children under my feet Hmm - now feeding time at the zoo. Wish me luck.
We're having fried Nutria Tails Grin

CarpeVinum · 29/12/2013 18:16
Grin

Yum!

Just about to hit the Gs

I am fair buzzing from the .... tedium.

I am enjoying writing snappy subject lines though.

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MadameDefarge · 29/12/2013 18:22

well done carpe for finding that website...

CarpeVinum · 29/12/2013 18:37

Not pointless Madame your activity shamed me into stopping procrastinating and getting on with it.

Have done all Hs

Am very bored now.

Internet very slow.

Birminham council website...not exciting.

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MadameDefarge · 29/12/2013 18:47

phew!

PR is not all glam, its 90% getting the message out to folk!

I think that the Brum mafia will enjoy be very concerned at JHs continued antics. And will discuss with glee very soberly this latest blot on his copybook.

WestmorlandPigInBlanket · 29/12/2013 18:47

Has anyone contacted the local Birmingham news?

MadameDefarge · 29/12/2013 18:49

I did a link to local media on twitter.

Sorry I am not on twitter. but am happy to do grunt work in the background.

Tiredemma · 29/12/2013 18:54

A very good friend of mine is local MP (solihull)

anything I can forward to her?

(must admit im a bit slow on the uptake)

CarpeVinum · 29/12/2013 18:55

Tired

Yes!

This

John Hemming - Banned from Mumsnet after post pub posting.

(from homeschoolinitaly.blogspot.it)
(distributed via Twitter)

When the Italian C-sec/adoption case hit the news it was debated on Mumsnet.

One of the posters debating the case was the MP John Hemming MP posting under his own name, an account verified by Mumsnet HQ.

Things got..... interesting.

Mr. Hemming appeared unhappy that other posters were not prepared to take his word for it when it came to his sweeping statements. They kept being terribly awkward by asking for things like evidence and proof to back his statements up. In what may have been a fit of pique he offered to email a poster proof.

She received a page from a legal document.
The case was still ongoing.
Names were not redacted.

Mumsnetters did this...

Among the posters trying to introduce Mr John Hemming to the basics of what debate actually is, were a number of Italian speakers who challenged his assertions as per the Italian court being in agreement with him. In what may have been an attempt to "get one over" on the declared Italian speakers Mr Hemming declared his own command of Italian to be adequate enough to read and discuss an extract from a legal document pertaining to the mother in the original news story.

He posted the extract on Mumsnet.

The extract was from a document that was never intended by the court to be made public. When he posted the extract he posted the names of Alexandra Pacchieri's baby in England,whose name was protected by a court order, and both of her sisters in Italy. Other identifying information about the three children was also included.

Mumsnet HQ deleted the post as soon as they heard about the contents.

Mr Hemming went "Oppsie! It's OK, doesn't count cos I didn't mean to and anyway my Italian skills have retrospectively evaporated"

If his declaration of "Opps!" is to be taken at face value, he had evidently not made any attempt to have the extract checked for origin, status and content prior to posting it for public viewing on Mumsnet.

Mumsnetters went ....

And took action.

Essex Local Authority, Tim Farron [Senior Liberal Democrat] and the court of Judge Munby (the officiating judge in UK) were informed of what had occurred. Additionally, the Guardian newspaper was made aware of the breach of confidentiality by a serving MP

Mr Hemming kept on posting. His posts aroused suspicions that he was Mumsnetting under the influence. When asked directly if he was drunk he replied, "I am not sober, but I am right". (and lo did the number of screen shots go forth and multiply)

Mumsnetters did not... ...when they saw that, because it was ever so slightly obvious.

Mumsnetters were increasingly dismayed by poor political standards of conduct running riot over their thread by this point.

Mr John Hemming then posted the twitter handles of Mumsnetters on the thread. Effectively outing a number of them given that some of the twitter handles were clearly in the posters' real names.

Mr Hemming's post containing Mumsnetters' real names was swiftly deleted by MNHQ. And he went quiet.

Due to John Hemming's sudden disappearance Mumsnet HQ was asked if he had been banned.

They confirmed that Mr Hemming has the dubious honour of being the first MP to ever have had his account banned for a week while they decide what the best course of action is.

We are astounded that a serving MP is disregarding the law in such a blatant fashion, and is attempting to intimidate other posters by revealing their real life identities. Contrary to Mr Hemming's repeated assertions, there are often very good reasons for not releasing the names and the details of those involved in a family court case. In many cases, this secrecy is maintained to protect the innocent - the children. For a member of our parliament to reveal details of these cases, that he has only become party to due to his work as an MP, is extremely worrying.

For background of the original news story as it was first reported, and how it morphed as actual facts came to light please see:www.headoflegal.com/2013/12/04/booker-hemming-and-the-forced-caesarian-case-a-masterclass-in-flat-earth-news/

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Tiredemma · 29/12/2013 18:58

Ok- will forward info to her now (she had an xmas card from his 'office' and was outraged- she does not think highly of him)

CarpeVinum · 29/12/2013 18:58

I will start the Ks .... soon.

I need a break.

Blimey, harder work than I realised.

My fingers hurt.

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MadameDefarge · 29/12/2013 18:59

good work carpe,

in fact, bloody excellent work.

CarpeVinum · 29/12/2013 19:00

Tierd Thanks

Foot in door!

(((((You star)))))

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CarpeVinum · 29/12/2013 19:01

I'd be crap down a mine.

Can't even cope with minor emailling session.

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MadameDefarge · 29/12/2013 19:01

well done Tired!

WestmorlandPigInBlanket · 29/12/2013 19:02

NanaNina also did a good summary of concerns on a previous thread

NanaNina Fri 06-Dec-13 00:46:42

Spero I feel I must come on to support you, as you are doing a sterling job attempting to have a rational debate with JH even when you know that is an impossible task. Some of your posts have made me smile (a lot) and I think you have succeeded in rattling JH, which is a rare occurrence as in my view he is usually impervious to criticism and just pops back up with some wild allegation or a soundbite that makes little sense.

OK JH you can sue me too for defamation because I know you tell lies. I have a long memory and can recall you making these claims in the past.

  1. Your belief that ALL professionals involved in care proceedings are evil and are all part of a conspiracy to "snatch babies" from loving parents to get them adopted. You call this "forced adoption." You include in that conspiracy theory that lawyers not only for the LA but also the lawyers/counsel for the birthparents. Indeed you commented that such lawyers "roll over and agree with the LA because they have a mortgage to pay." It was in fact this last comment that made Spero retaliate in her usual impressive and cohesive manner, and she was rightly very angry that you could tell such lies. You believe that the Judge is also part of the conspiracy theory. These are monstrous lies and I fail to understand how an elected MP can tell such truly shocking lies and not be brought to book - shame on the LibDems and Nick Clegg in particular for not putting a stop to an MP telling such horrendous lies.
  1. You posted on MN that a mother had had her child removed from her because the grandmother called the social worker fat! That was another ludicrous lie
  1. You claim time and time again that social workers snatch babies to fulfil adoption targets, but you get muddled because some months ago you began to state that there were no longer adoption targets. However now that there are targets in terms of the timeline you can return to your ridiculous notion that social workers are "snatching" babies to fulfil adoption targets. You never produce evidence for any of your allegations.

I note that a poster was asking whether your views were personal or whether you were speaking on behalf of the Liberal Party, and surprise surprise this did not elicit any response. Maybe you would like to respond to that issue???

You claim that the vast majority of MPs are concerned with this case and I find that very difficult to believe. I read that you "spoke to Mr Gove" about the case under discussion and I can't recall your exact words but your comments was something along the lines of "it wasn't his objective" (almost as bad as "they did wrong things") which I take to mean he didn't want to engage with you, as I am sure you are seen as some sort of buffoon in parliament. My partner is a member of the Co-Op Party and was in conversation with a LibDem MP from the North of England and he mention you, and she replied "Oh he's barmy - everyone knows that"

AND JH did you not confuse Nick Owen on Midlands Today recently and I honestly can't recall what absurd claim you were making, but do you recall Nick Owen twice saying to you "I don't know what you mean" and were you able to clarify - NO of course not - just more incoherent bumbling.

For posters who ask why JH isn't doing more to raise the very pertinent issue of the state of Birmingham City Council's Social Services Department - yes you would think this would definitely be an issue which he would be raising in parliament. But nooo - you see JH is not interested in attempting to bring about any improvements in the child protection service in Birmingham, no interest at all. Indeed he has no interest in the safeguarding of children, he is only interested in anything that fits in with his conspiracy theories about snatching babies, and his ability to make cases (such as this one) fit with his conspiracy theory knows no bounds.

Now how about telling us JH about the time you issued a Writ against Birmingham City Council Social Services Department following a personal matter that concerned someone with whom you were involved. I can't remember the exact sum but it was something ludicrous like £300,000 and he particularly specified that this sum should be paid by the social workers who in his perception had acted inappropriately Am I right JH ???? Yes I think I am.

Spero has given a link about the severe criticism that a High Court Judge made about you (Wall LJ) when you were acting as a McKenzie friend in court. I somehow don't think you did that family any favours.

I have said again and again that the people I feel sorry for are parents whose children are at the heart of care proceedings who consult JH as I suspect they think that because he is an MP he can intervene on their behalf in the proceedings and of course he can't. On occasions he has advised parents to cease being legally represented by their chosen lawyer and instead has "given" them someone who works in his organisation (whatever that is) I think he calls her Mrs Smith or something similar and says she is "very good" in these matters. I really feel angry that he is leading these families to believe that he or Mrs Smith or whoever can assist them in court and maybe get their children returned to them. I was taught as a young social worker many moons ago that we must always show respect for people, and I have always stuck to that, no matter how distressing the details of the abuse or neglect that has been perpetrated on a child. I have always been straight with people and have on hundreds of occasions had to tell parents things that they did not want to hear, but that is part of the social work task.

I once asked JH how many "successful cases" his organisation had in terms of getting a child/ren re-united with parents once care proceedings had been initiated and his response was We don't keep those figures ..........yeah right!

I'm sorry for the length of this post and I'm sure JH won't have managed to read it all - he isn't very interested in detail and facts preferring to make wild allegations that are entirely without substance. I'm also sorry if people think this issue with JH is detracting from the thread and I suppose it is to a large extent, but he really is very provocative and insulting to people who are working day in and day out attempting to provide support for families experiencing difficulties and those working in the family courts on a daily basis. Or in his words "Spero and Nananina operating the system." That is a veiled accusation that I am busy snatching babies from loving parents and getting the matter into court to get them adopted and where Spero if she is acting for the parents is "rolling over" and agreeing with the LA because she has a mortgage to pay.

Some posters have asked why they should believe JH rather than professionals involved in the courts in these matters. Well I will leave you to judge that.

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