FWR split continued

[RebeccaMumsnet]

We have decided to start a new thread about this as the other thread was near capacity and taking a while to load.

Here is Justine's post from earlier on

We can give a Radical Feminism topic a go if that's what people want and see if it works. Obviously we need to be crystal clear that no one is obliged to post in one particular place and no one should feel excluded from any topic but we could test it out, and see if it helps resolve tensions. We'll do that in the next few days.

There are a couple of other things to think about as well.

First, those who come onto FWR to derail and inflame. We acknowledge that we have been too slow in the past to spot these posters for what they were. We're sorry about that and hope we're a lot quicker at dealing with them now. We're all for opinions but we do draw the line at posters whose only obvious intent is to goad.

And secondly, this idea that FWR can be an unwelcoming place to those who aren't following the 'party line'. Judging by posts on recent threads and by our inbox this is a view of a significant number of Mumsnetters and obviously that's not a healthy situation. Mumsnet is a place for discussion and for diverse opinion and it's the exchange of ideas and tolerance of differing opinions that makes it the board it is.

We do hope threads like this help to clear the air a bit and remind everyone that, whatever the differences of opinion, the FWR board will only ever be the stimulating, thought-provoking, enriching place we'd all like it to be if people feel that they can express themselves without being jumped on.

Please do continue to let us know your thoughts.

"Add message | Report | Message poster OliviaLMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 29-Jun-12 19:38:44
C'mon people. I don't want to have to link to the guidelines.

Let's try and sort this out.
PlentyOfPubeGardens
Just another vote for three sections -

cafe - general discussion including rolling newbie question threads

feminist support - not just for rape or dv survivors but for anyone looking for woman-centred support for a problem.

feminist theory - I think this would really help people not to take things so personally. Could it be merged with feminist books?
Thoughts on this please."

I'm sold.

Pan-I didn't understand a word of that. No offense obviously.

Shall I unpack it in a rolling series of 2,567 posts? .

Ans, I would suggest, focussing on ideas not individual posters might calm things down. There seems to be confusion between "personally addressing" and "personally attacking". It would mean actually engaging with those that post ideas, rather than getting side-tracked down the personal route, but in the spirit of the board and all that, I'm sure it's possible.

i don't have the energy for this. i can't politely respect the opinion that some women bring rape on themselves, i can't pretend to find valid gender essentialist views, amongst other things

for me, it would feel equivalent to a poster talking about how BME people are genetically inferior, and me nodding and saying, yes, that is an interesting and valid opinion

i just can't bring myself to do it.

the people who hold those opinions may be truly beautiful human beings and real humanitarians, but, i think these beliefs are stupid, ill considered, and actively harmful to women. this despite how well meaning the people who post them might be.

i can't see how i can post on a board where i need to pretend to respect tripe like that. i have tried to engage in good faith with posts, and not attack posters, but if the expectation is now that all opinions are valid and of equal worth, and not to be disagreed with, my way of posting cannot be good enough

so long anyway, i have enjoyed the discussions. i hope this works out well for everyone.

dittany please answer my question as to what you actually want.

How do you want the board to be?

"Add message | Report | Message poster dittany Fri 29-Jun-12 19:49:31
Personally I don't see why you would expect to have a board called feminism without feminist analysis, even going so far as to describe something as anti-feminist, but maybe that's another thing Mumnset would prefer not to have on their "about feminism" not "for feminism" Feminism board"

I haven't seen anyone say that feminist analysis was not a good thin on the board. But feminist analysis is just that... It's analysis and theory... Not facts that everyone encounters on a day today basis. This needs to be acknowledged.

that's not the point chibi, you don't have to respect it and leave it be, but it might be more productive to engage and lead than shoot down in flames?

Chibi, what is BME?

BME - black minority ethnic.

Same old same old same old.

If I were you I'd completely refuse to engage Justine.

The Mumsnet FWR topic is rotten.

Yes and I posted the following.

"Add message | Report | Message poster EclecticShock Fri 29-Jun-12 19:41:43
"Anyway I posted a list of threads in FWR that shows that the section is going great guns, whatever the stories are from people who say it's a terrible place, frightening everybody away."

It does appear to have a different flavour this week, is that a coincidence? It certainly hasn't been like that the last month."

Any thoughts?

does ^ mean you don't want anything to change after all?

What was the point of all this then??

Thanks Pan.

FWR is going really well at the moment. I wonder why that is.

"I think after all this discussion they should leave it exactly as it is."

You mean leave it exactly as you want it to be?

There is a plethora of new threads in FWR - most of them commenced over the weekend. Whilst focus has been on this debate, and other 'regular' posters have been otherwise engaged, that will prob. change in the near future. And it's back to square one.

Why do you think it is yellowraincoat?

FWR has always had these problems, not just when F4J came over

Most of the antifem/mra/are you a man posts have been deleted - many of us have seen them and been called them, many posters have had their words twisted and brought across threads, often when the original posts have been deleted so no one can see what was actually said. Men are not welcome. Posters who were welcome can say one thing 'wrong' and then they are rounded on everytime they post

A topic such as FWR will have people who have no understanding at all and no drive to understand using it - they are allowed to, there will also be posters at all different levels of feminism, they too are allowed to be there and comment - whether you agree with them or not

What is not allowed is breaking the boards guidelines, on either side

It has been lovely over there this week, more posters and more topics all running along nice and smoothly. If that continues, then there is no problem

I still want a naughty step - 2 day ban for people persistently breaking the guidelines