FWR split continued

[RebeccaMumsnet]

We have decided to start a new thread about this as the other thread was near capacity and taking a while to load.

Here is Justine's post from earlier on

We can give a Radical Feminism topic a go if that's what people want and see if it works. Obviously we need to be crystal clear that no one is obliged to post in one particular place and no one should feel excluded from any topic but we could test it out, and see if it helps resolve tensions. We'll do that in the next few days.

There are a couple of other things to think about as well.

First, those who come onto FWR to derail and inflame. We acknowledge that we have been too slow in the past to spot these posters for what they were. We're sorry about that and hope we're a lot quicker at dealing with them now. We're all for opinions but we do draw the line at posters whose only obvious intent is to goad.

And secondly, this idea that FWR can be an unwelcoming place to those who aren't following the 'party line'. Judging by posts on recent threads and by our inbox this is a view of a significant number of Mumsnetters and obviously that's not a healthy situation. Mumsnet is a place for discussion and for diverse opinion and it's the exchange of ideas and tolerance of differing opinions that makes it the board it is.

We do hope threads like this help to clear the air a bit and remind everyone that, whatever the differences of opinion, the FWR board will only ever be the stimulating, thought-provoking, enriching place we'd all like it to be if people feel that they can express themselves without being jumped on.

Please do continue to let us know your thoughts.

a) I don't agree, but I am beginning to think, that there is a massive sense of "you said this" when people haven't going on, or a better way of putting it, putting words into peoples mouths
b) If you think any of this is aimed at you personally is there is a reason why?

I don't think anyone is complaining about the presence of radical feminists, but considering yourself (and this is a general comment, not you Beachcomber I have no idea what you post), a radical feminist, does not give anyone the right to belittle other posters, or indeed tell them what they can or cant post about, and this is based on the transgender thread and nothing else.

I also thought the transgender thread showed massive lack of empathy, or understanding of issues faced by others, female and male.

there is still old baggage being brought into threads and I don't know how we get beyond that

A genuine change of attitude, commitment to that, patience and time. To rebuild trust.

YY yet again:

no one cares about rad fem views.

Most of us share them.

Just don't like the unpleasantness, of whatever political persuasion it comes from. It's personalities, not politics.

I am aware that I have been seen as "unpleasant" today - but dear lord I too am so sick of the total la la land nonsense.

Thank you ChickensHaveNoLips. That is a really nice post.

Actually I don't think anyone should fuck off, apart from invading trolls.

I think all MNers who post on FWR should be welcomed, but should expect to have their ideas and viewpoints challenged.

Isnt that a general principle we can agree on? ...and then work towards working out a culture that puts that into practice?

Ah but you see, I have WicketyPitch.

Don't worry, I'm not crying into my glass over it.

Just disappointed.

It was sincerely meant, Beachcomber.

And Wickety I've also been called all manner of things in the FWR section.

I just don't start threads about it, or demand splits, or new sections, or bully specific posters. And I don't dredge all the insults up every-time there is a ruck or an opportunity of giving someone a kicking.

I tend to forget, move on and post on what interests me.

But enough is enough.

Thank you HotheadPaisan.

I guess I just don't really want to be here anymore. Like I said to AnyFucker the other day, I'm feeling a bit weary and cynical.

Thanks again ChickensHaveNoLips .

himalaya Challenged is good, but (at least in the past) any views that differ from "the correct view" aren't just challenged. They are dismissed, belittled, etc. And if anyone points out that this happens they are told they are imagining it.

I tend to try and avoid FWR nowadays, despite being hugely interested in feminism. I'd rather read a book about it.

Radfem views are needed and wanted

What's not wanted is people being told if you aren't rad enough, your views are stupid/wrong/antifeminist

No one needs to leave, people only need to post in the sections they want to and no one is banned from any section

Ok, isn't it about time we were all honest in here. This IS about Dittany, indirectly or otherwise. She has a distinct posting style. It upsets some people. She gets attacked. Some posters support her. Others don't. There are repeated complaints to MN over and over again. It's got fuck all to do with feminism so how the do we deal with that, put it to bed once and for all, and Everyone move on ?

MsCellophane, I beg to differ.

Radical views are not wanted.

I've heard it said often enough. Message received, loud and clear.

I fear it is a leetle late for backtracking.

Amazing... People claim they don't want the rad fems to disappear, yet certain posters have spent most of the afternoon attacking Dittany.

Mumsnet, to be honest, I'm disgusted. Dittany asked you to delete the thread in radical feminism. You haven't. I asked you, on Dittany's behalf, to delete it. You haven't responded. We've been asking you all weekend to rename it, and you haven't listened to us. I got an acknowledgement to a suggestion. Nothing more. You put the Rad Fem section up quick enough, despite no radical feminist asking for it. Yet when we object, with good reason, you lack a suitable response. I told you that, upon the radical feminism board, rad fems would be under attack. Would it have hurt to listen and act on our concerns?

To be honest, I've had it to the back teeth with Mumsnet. Am now on my way out. Doubt I'll be the only one. You've shown that you never truly wanted radical feminism on Mumsnet anyway.

You've only heard that Beach because people wouldn't call a spade a spade. So to be polite they called it radfem.

I think we should vote on the three new sections. I don't want rad fem views to disappear either, I have actually learned from them but I do want other views to be discussed in equal measure.

No one wants the radfems to leave.

It is starting to sound like a great big pity party.

How many more times does it have to be said?

Wake up and smell the coffee.

And I am still waiting for an answer as to how come dittany gets special pleading?

I actually object to that glasgowwean.

Yes dittany, you do come in for a lot of flack.

I'm done with here because of the general attacks on radical feminists. The treatment of dittany (and Sakura who was also hounded off FWR) does makes me sick though.

"Amazing... People claim they don't want the rad fems to disappear, yet certain posters have spent most of the afternoon attacking Dittany."

Dittany is not the only radfem poster. It's about debating style not content. Some styles can stifle an even debated and polarise views, pitting people against one another and encouraging unnecessary defensiveness, IMO.

If a majority of posters say X, and a few say Y, which is likely to be more correct in an Occam's Razor kind of way?