FWR split continued

[RebeccaMumsnet]

We have decided to start a new thread about this as the other thread was near capacity and taking a while to load.

Here is Justine's post from earlier on

We can give a Radical Feminism topic a go if that's what people want and see if it works. Obviously we need to be crystal clear that no one is obliged to post in one particular place and no one should feel excluded from any topic but we could test it out, and see if it helps resolve tensions. We'll do that in the next few days.

There are a couple of other things to think about as well.

First, those who come onto FWR to derail and inflame. We acknowledge that we have been too slow in the past to spot these posters for what they were. We're sorry about that and hope we're a lot quicker at dealing with them now. We're all for opinions but we do draw the line at posters whose only obvious intent is to goad.

And secondly, this idea that FWR can be an unwelcoming place to those who aren't following the 'party line'. Judging by posts on recent threads and by our inbox this is a view of a significant number of Mumsnetters and obviously that's not a healthy situation. Mumsnet is a place for discussion and for diverse opinion and it's the exchange of ideas and tolerance of differing opinions that makes it the board it is.

We do hope threads like this help to clear the air a bit and remind everyone that, whatever the differences of opinion, the FWR board will only ever be the stimulating, thought-provoking, enriching place we'd all like it to be if people feel that they can express themselves without being jumped on.

Please do continue to let us know your thoughts.

Not the same as criticising the poster, I mean.

I'm sure there's plenty of posters that are lovely - kind to cats, etc - but I still find their views on immigrants, the benefits system, etc, repellent. I'm allowed to say so. They, in turn, are allowed to tell me to stuff it. Or ask why I think that. Or engage with my views. Or any of the hundreds of responses that are possible in a debate.

Just because it's MN rules doesn't mean I agree with them. Criticise a view, sure, but labelling it is something different.

Since we already have people coming on the radfem section boo hewing about radfems, maybe that's proof enough to MNHQ that some people just have an axe to grind and segregating the radfems was pointless?

Well, you can't criticise a view without describing it. Describing, or summing up, or paraphrasing, or shortening: all of these could be called 'labelling' and I don't see how we're going to talk about anything if we can't do that.

Oh, are we really, lurking

Check out my thread Victor.

Well, I disagree. I think you can say why you disagree with a few without saying it's anti-feminist, pro-porn, anti-woman or whatever.

I am. Look, I don't want to drag across threads but I'm loathe to post in there. What's MMeLindor's thread? I haven't seen anything on FWR or Feminist Activism. Was it posted there?

On my thread 'this sction is offensive' a poster has already started the 'we're not as good as radfems' garbage. Just proof to me it's about personalities, not opinions.

Yellow, I told someone in the paddling pool yesterday that restricting access to abortion is an anti-woman thing to do. Just typing this reminds me that I haven't been back to check yet but I think it went over ok.

There are things in this world that are anti-woman. There just are.

But the poster doesn't think her views are anti-woman. You might. I might. But you aren't going to change her views by labelling them.

Some people are just too sensitive. Now we can't say how we feel in a debate?

There's just no winning.

Actually that wasn't a poster, it was me, and my views are quite clear on this thread, I see no need to cut and paste them to that thread as well.

I love the way you pick out that post and not Mme's far more powerful and emotive post.

I haven't posted in FWR for well over a year, and probably even longer than that, for me it isn't about personalities, as I haven't got a clue who posts what there anymore, its about the constant barrage of barely veiled insults thrown at any one who doesn't follow the party line as I have explained further below,

So...Why come to the radfem section to have a little dig? What exactly was the point?

It's not really for you to say who's "too" sensitive though. What's the right level of sensitive?

Who says I want to change them? She's entitled to feel however she wants about abortion. It's her life and her journey.

If she wanted to condemn other posters for campaigning for abortion access, or was trying to promote restriction of abortion law (I hasten to add she is NOT doing either of these things), then that would be anti-woman.

She wouldn't think so. I would. She'd probably think my 'abortions for all' stance anti-woman. That's fine. She's entitled. It's a deadlock - a lot of the 'big' feminist issues are going to end up in deadlock between posters. That's alright.

Lurking, maybe YOU'RE being too sensitive for seeing why's post as a dig?

There's two sides to every coin.

LurkingAndLearningForNow Sat 30-Jun-12 13:29:48
Since we already have people coming on the radfem section boo hewing about radfems, maybe that's proof enough to MNHQ that some people just have an axe to grind and segregating the radfems was pointless?

and thats just paranoid, I went to have a look see, because, well, I am nosey like that, mumsnet said it was there, I posted here, so I toddled over, and so far it has 2 meaningless threads moaning about it, one of which actually has some heart wrenching information and links, which have been, completely ignored.

That last is to yellow, btw.

OK, but where does it get you saying it's anti-woman? Like I said, it's not up to you to decide. Fuck, I'm pro-choice as hell, but saying that someone is anti-woman? That's a pretty strong accusation.

Lurking, I have cross posted with you, but see above, if there had been anything in there to comment on, I would have, and well, I did.

Perhaps I am. Just as I'm allowed to think others are too sensitive, people are more than allowed to think I'm too sensitive.

If we can't say how we feel about anything without people being offended, what's really the point?

But that can be applied both ways, Lurking.

People might think "you can't even call a woman a bitch without the feminists getting pissed off about it - they're too sensitive". That's not ok. But likewise, I don't think it's ok for a feminist to say someone else is too sensitive.

The whole thing just stifles debate.

yes fwr has been harsh and unwelcoming place, so I do hope a positive out one longterm is that fwr remains interesting but less shouty,less harsh to whole range of posters

Im not offended. Paedophiles, rapists, abusers, they offend me, a difference of opinion on the internet, that does not.

I like feminism, it fascinates me, my child is a rape victim, the system is atrocious and needs change. I think at the moment, FWR (well when I was reading a lot there), is its own worst enemy and damages the very cause its tries to promote. Mumsnet is a powerful site with a lot of media potential, mumsnet feminism, is something I would (based on a year ago), I would be ashamed to put my name to.

I name change every 2 weeks, as we have a pending trial, so I rarely stick my head above the parapet, but I feel quite strongly about this, you never change peoples views by "shouting" at them.