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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
EstroGena · 17/03/2012 17:25

OMG- just looked at the FB site and saw pictures of a semi naked Matt O'Connor being arrested!!! Never thought I would say this but FFS someone pass him a batman suit!! Shock

cornsilksity · 17/03/2012 17:29

Please tell me that he took those ridiculous glasses off along with his undies

blondieminx · 17/03/2012 17:32

Well said Justine and Sephora.

StewieGriffinsMom I am Shock at that, I do hope the police take very strong action against the horrible man who threatened you Sad totally unacceptable. Recently the police did prosecute over statements posted on Facebook details here

EstroGena · 17/03/2012 17:32

Perhaps the glasses are part of his Bruce Wayne persona?!?!

Henry1980 · 17/03/2012 17:33

Off topic a bit, I don't agree with everything F4J do but, I do worry that many of the organisations involved in the family court system say everything is done in the best interests of children, I'd feel happier if they produced some evidence which shows that the children involved in such cases are happy with the decisions made for them, clearly this would need a long term study.

Codandchops · 17/03/2012 17:37

That's just it though Henry - when F4J pull stunts like this they alienate their cause and the men who are genuinely fighting the unfairness of it all. Sad

I just feel they put their cause back decades by being so provocotive.

Popoozle · 17/03/2012 17:37

Oh he's taken his clothes off and got himself arrested. That'll teach M&S a lesson Confused.

LadySybilDeChocolate · 17/03/2012 17:40

I can fully understand why the mothers don't want these fathers to see their children. What sort of example is this to set a child? Can you imagine them going into school and telling the teacher what their father has been doing over the weekend?

EstroGena · 17/03/2012 17:56

Arrested for indecent exposure....that will look great on his next court application!!!!

runningforthebusinheels · 17/03/2012 18:03

I guess his vendetta against MN wasn't getting any media attention, so he had to pull this stunt....he'll make tonight's news now for all the wrong reasons.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 17/03/2012 18:03

estro I am pretty sure it is not indecent exposure unless he was erect. He will prob be charged with disturbing the peace

Henry1980 · 17/03/2012 18:04

I certainly wouldn't be happy if I was with my children and they got to see something they shouldn't, personally I loved the costumes batman etc, that did seem to raise awareness of these very complex issues.

ledkr · 17/03/2012 18:04

What a shame.
I am a divorced Mum who wishes my ex would see our children much more and i will do absolutley everything to promote contact. This includes taking them to him,giving him money when he is skint and assisting the dc in maintaining contact despite his lack of real commitment.
I am therefore extremely pro equal rights/contact for parents.
I have mostly found mn to be the same.
Most posters will actively discourage any Mums on here from stopping or limiting contact no matter how out of order the ex has been to them.
I think ffj have done themselves and other fathers no favours at all with all their antics in the past,which often make them appear wholy unsuitable fathers.

sairygamp · 17/03/2012 18:04

'erect' ewwwwww

QIelf · 17/03/2012 18:05

Imagine his ex posting on here.

"Exh just been arrested for indecent exposure. How do I explain that to the children?"

EstroGena · 17/03/2012 18:05

Thanks for that Norma (just ran to the loo to be sick!!) Wink

TunipTheVegemal · 17/03/2012 18:11

Norma - no, it doesn't have to be erect.

KatieMiddleton · 17/03/2012 18:13

Oh my. Naked protesting?! Boycott M&S? Mumsnet inspires gender hatred??! ROFL.

I bet M&S are shitting themselves that all those fathers4justice types won't be stocking up on M&S flowers and chocolates for the mother of their child... Oh, hang on... Grin

On a serious point F4J have massively shot themselves in the foot. They have identified MN as the enemy when we could have been their biggest ally. I think there is tremendous support for improving the family court system and the secrecy it hides behind, the patriarchal bias that assumes the mother as primary care giver rather than 50/50 split as the default and the fact there is no robust process for collecting and paying maintenance from the non resident parent (that's PARENT, not father). However, F4J do not appear to be doing this. They appear to be attacking a business because it is used by women. Gender hatred if ever I say it.

ElephantsAreMadeOfElements · 17/03/2012 18:15

Is Carrie feeling left out? Why has no one impugned her IQ or hydration status?

Oooh, perhaps she's a F4J mole in very deep cover... [has watched too many spy thrillers emoticon]

sunshineoutdoors · 17/03/2012 18:27

I really like the fact that some posters here are still making it clear that they support rights for fathers who want to be involved with their children i.e. the issue that f4j is supposed to be about. Just because f4j are trying to make things difficult for mn, mn still support fathers because this is in the best interests of children. This is why mn is showing itself to be far above the silliness of this smear campaign.

It is such a shame that f4j have taken upon themselves to do this, and will, I think, actually make it harder for fathers who want to see their kids and who don't behave in this bizarre manner - as what they are doing seems ridiculous and is actually distracting attention away from their intended message. They don't seem to be helping their cause at all.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 17/03/2012 18:32

I have had a revelation!

Justine Helen F4J Lurkers

Having looked at the f4j site far too much over the last few days (rubbernecking, I admit it, sorry) this is what seems to happen:-

Whenever someone says anything other than f4j are wonderful etc then they get deleted. I have seen examples where some bloke just asked "what does this demonstration achieve?" and was deleted. You do not have to make an anti f4j comment, just not thinking Matt he is a legend seems to be enough (alegedly).

MUMSNET DOES NOT WORK LIKE THIS

If I turned up on a thread and said "Well all MILs are mad bats", I would not be deleted, other people would be free to debate with me. They would tell me I am being unreasonable.

Similarly, when someone says, "god yeah, my DH does this, aren't men useless", then loads of other people (many from the fwr board) will rock up and tell them they are wrong, loads and loads of men are competent and great. The post will not be deleted just because it is wrong. The reaction of the other posters is there to educate and illuminate for anyone else who comes along to that thread.

We only delete if posts breach the guidelines which includes personal attacks etc.

Also, finally..

Saying that all rapists are men (in the law in this country) is not the same as saying that all men are rapists. Saying all border collies are dogs is not the same as saying that all dogs are border collies.

I hope now that we all understand this there can be peace on earth and Matt can keep his clothes on.

bomsback · 17/03/2012 18:43

I'm actually raelly cross with matt et al for making this such a complete pantomime.

My DH has had a really rough deal of it being alienated from hid DD, he has a genuine reason to be upset about the hand he's been dealt and could do with a sensible version of F4J to help him out.

All theyve done is make fathers a laughing stock.

NorfolkNChance · 17/03/2012 18:55

Oh dear, stripping to make a point about being a responsible father.

Kinda shot himself in the foot there didn't he.

Still M&S must have done a roaring trade today!

blackoutthesun · 17/03/2012 19:00

well thank you fathers4justice, just spoke to dp who works for m&s and he was saying his sales were up Grin

also i've been stalking their fb page, if anyone asks how how many people turned up it gets deleted

NarkedPuffin · 17/03/2012 19:05

I popped in today and did some food shopping. Just because.

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