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Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
IjustLOVEmen · 19/03/2012 18:00

From F4J FB page: Sy Richardson: When will some mothers grow up and stop setting such a wonderfu...l :-S example for their children.
On the upside, my eldest just popped in on the way home and said he "couldn't give a s**t.." when i said his mum aint gonna be happy ..quality!
Love you George x ..wise beyond his years ;)

WOW!

Just WOW!

It is depressing beyond belief at the ignornance.

fabwoman · 19/03/2012 18:00

Maybe it is because male and rape has been quite a busy topic this week? There is a full stop between rape and male.

PurpleRomanesco · 19/03/2012 18:01

I responded

"How does one emotionally force sexual intercourse on an unwilling person?"

It was deleted.

fabwoman · 19/03/2012 18:02

Since when has disrespect against your mother been something to be proud of?

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 18:04

Genuine question, how can a female physically rape a male?Confused where has anyone on MN said they did or condoned that action? Why is male rape the biggest part of the add? Any phyciatric professionals care to comment, as an untrained member of the public, I have my theory!

SoupDragon · 19/03/2012 18:05

Why is George's mother not going to be happy?
Why does George not give a shit?
What does he not give a shit about?
Who cares?

Tiago · 19/03/2012 18:05

You know - for a minute I actually thought they were advocating male rape. Confused

Tiago · 19/03/2012 18:06

As in rape of a male...

peeriebear · 19/03/2012 18:09

I think anyone with half a brain will see this 'ad' as simply cherry picking provocative buzzwords out of a forum with thousands of posts from thousands of posters per day. It says nothing and demonstrates nothing apart from their desire to be shocking. Anybody could make a similar poster from their own (f4j) forums, or cheezburger, or 4chan (which would be infinitely worse), or even a run of the mill car/lifestyle/TV forum.

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 19/03/2012 18:12

Posting on their fb page is just going to feed into their delusion that they're under attack and all the forces in the world are united against them to stop them spreading the truth. The more they feel under attack, the more they're going to keep on with these silly ads and campaigns.

As CodandChops said, the most likely result of this is we get a slight increase in MRA types looking for a barney with the evil man-hating radfems. They'll get bored when they see the lack of man-hating etc.

As an aside, out of all the people misquoted, I'm annoyed most for sAf, hers was an honest to god question and they've just ripped out a small bit of it. Apparently they don't believe they're misquoting people.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 18:13

I was trying to get my head round the male rape thing too, maybe it is male on male rape? Then what has that or the family court process got to do with MN or M&S, it is all so odd imho! Confused

whogivesa1 · 19/03/2012 18:13

I can't believe all of this rage against us all!!! Surely it would make more sense for them to channel all of their energies in doing something productive ... like spending time with/setting a good example to their children. Its awful! They're sore and bitter and so are looking for someone to blame, instead of looking at themselves and seeing where perhaps they went wrong in the first place. I love MN! I feel very sorry for all at MNHQ having to deal with all of this rubbish! Sad

messyisthenewtidy · 19/03/2012 18:14

From F4J: "Toby Jem Hector: These women are evil. How they can look themselves in the mirror and call themselves 'Mothers' is unknown to any civilised human being. A true Mother should promote love and acceptance; whilst they 'openly' chose instead to promote gender hatred, discrimination, bitterness and the telling of out and out lies in front of their own children."

Based on F4J's understanding of demonstrative adjectives, surely this is calling ALL women evil liars.... Confused

IjustLOVEmen · 19/03/2012 18:16

It's like text book projection

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 18:17

who are these women Toby is referring to then? Mirrors reflect, interesting thing to have on his mind...

Tiago · 19/03/2012 18:18

I'm an evil liar lawyer. Does that help?

AbigailAdams · 19/03/2012 18:23

Well you know mothers should be sweetness and light all the time and most of all infallible. Because if we fall off that pedestal woe betide us.

messyisthenewtidy · 19/03/2012 18:23

^"Viv Colburn Some women do this. It's ok for them to attack but cry wolf when they are attacked back and go running usually to soft men in power with no backbone because it's easier than being nagged.
Also those men in power keep these bitter nasty women right where they want them because god help them when these extreme women get into power and they will if society doesnt get a grip on this hatred of men.
You reap what you sow Watch your backs men some women will stab you "^

And we're the ones who are supposed to be preaching gender-hatred?

TwoIfBySea · 19/03/2012 18:25

Wouldn't it be nice if F4J spent their time making sure that the men who do abandon their families and leave them financially bereft (not to mention hurting the children who never see them) were made to face up to their responsibilities?

They are behaving in the exact same manner as people who look for an excuse not to do what they should rather than a frustrated group of fathers desperate to see their children.

I have a family friend who went through hell when his ex threw him out. She cut him off from his children, accused him of soul destroying things - he lost his home, his children, had a break down that lost him his job. Luckily now, 15 years later, he has an understanding new wife, younger children and now his older children have come looking from him.

He and I have the same attitude - one day you will have to face up to what you have done and be accountable to your children.

Fathers are important, I had a great dad. It breaks my heart to see my dts denied a good dad. If this site was in any way "anti-men and boys" I'd have left long ago. I am raising my sons alone which is hard and lonely enough without having sticks to beat me with - F4J, this government. I want to raise decent men, happy and content and confident. These kind of attitudes do not help.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 18:29

thanks smellslike. i hope no one would think that i would say that all men were those things - but hey guess we'll find out if it goes in the paper tomorrow.

still no word from mnhq unless i've missed it?

NarkedPuffin · 19/03/2012 18:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

Beachcomber · 19/03/2012 18:39

trigger warning

Aaaah emotional rape.

The notion that somebody chatting on the internet and saying that some folks are fuckwits is equivalent to actually being forcibly penetrated with a penis in a bodily office, against one's will, in an act of sexual violence in real life.

Righto. So a load of rape myth bollocks then.

I think I'll just carry on supporting MN's 'We Believe You' campaign, thanks.

NarkedPuffin · 19/03/2012 18:39

Couldn't resist Smile

Onesunnymorningin2012 · 19/03/2012 18:40

We need a Groundhog day smiley.

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 19/03/2012 18:40

i need to stop reading the f4j fb page, it's costing me a fortune in irony meters.

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