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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 19/03/2012 17:26

Oh, I wasn't saying anyone should do it, NP

simply musing

KatieMiddleton · 19/03/2012 17:26

I did lol at that picture of the child with the tape on their roll of shit ads. She must have been about 30 at least.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 19/03/2012 17:28

Twllbach - the copyright issue was addressed when the Daily Mail was ripping off posts from here for their own articles, I can't remember what the outcome was though. But they don't do it any more AFAIK, so broadly positive I guess?

Hassled · 19/03/2012 17:30

Oh they can quote me.

"Gobsmacking"
"Eyebrow raising"
"Really quite remarkable"

Codandchops · 19/03/2012 17:31

Just seen the ad....hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa!

Am I allowed to call them "twats"?

Their ad makes no sense...except perhaps to them. It might slightly increase the traffic of fuckwits to MN for a few weeks but that's all.

OptimisticPessimist · 19/03/2012 17:31

They've given MN the copyright in the ad, plus I'd imagine there's some sort of "fair usage" clause. Given that they've very specifically used very short exerpts I imagine they'd claim fair usage?

Horrid, misleading ad.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 19/03/2012 17:32

Of course, the joy danger of such a simple ad is that anyone with a copy of Word can knock up a comedy parody of it...

messyisthenewtidy · 19/03/2012 17:36

I posted an entirely reasonable question on their Facebook page asking how they would expect MNHQ to distinguish between a post which insulted individual men and a post that insulted all men. They deleted it within seconds and banned me from posting..... I feel like such a criminal Blush

fabwoman · 19/03/2012 17:37

some not soon.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 17:39

You know there is the Bible and then you get cult leaders who write a second rate version of the Bible and say it's the truth, just saying!

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 17:42

I hope that those posting on FB have decent security, I wouldn't post on certain sites or FB pages with my rl name and identifying details!

peeriebear · 19/03/2012 17:42

I can't see the latest gem of an ad.

SoupDragon · 19/03/2012 17:42

The SAF quote is completely out of context because, in its original form, it is a question and specifies male blah blah blah (as opposed to female ones) rather than saying anything like all men are blah blah blah.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 19/03/2012 17:45

messy, I was deleted and blocked too for asking a perfectly polite question. I think a lot of people have been today, we should start a club Grin

PurpleRomanesco · 19/03/2012 17:49

The only reason for them deleting our questions is because they know they are wrong, Otherwise they would have no problem answering!

IjustLOVEmen · 19/03/2012 17:50

It's just a big fuss about women swearing. How very dare women swear on the interweb?

OptimisticPessimist · 19/03/2012 17:51

I was deleted and blocked for saying that it wasn't who posted their response or the link to Nadine's FB pafe Hmm

OptimisticPessimist · 19/03/2012 17:52

Ijust, it's because we're mothers. Mothers aren't supposed to swear or have opinions, we're supposed to be nice and swap recipes and discuss nap times.

Voidka · 19/03/2012 17:55

This is the latest ad

PurpleRomanesco · 19/03/2012 17:56

I asked them to describe the Male. Rape part of the ad.

The responded "Emotional Rape".

I'm speechless.

PurpleRomanesco · 19/03/2012 17:56

They*

fabwoman · 19/03/2012 17:58

ShockShock

Has someone sent that to M&S?

Voidka · 19/03/2012 17:58

It must be exhausting to be so wound up all the time!

runningforthebusinheels · 19/03/2012 17:58

I do think that Justine and MNHQ ignoring them is the best way - they are wanting a reaction, and the more of a reaction they get, the more they twist it and turn it back on us.

They're even trying to turn the threat against SGM back against us - like we're imagining it or making it up - and I saw that threat with my own eyes. Confused

I know that they are not a credible organisation and I know that mumsnet is a fantastic, supportive, witty, funny place to be, so I for one will not be bullied off MN by these losers. They can quote me, misquote me or quote me out of context on their ads, I just don't care.

FrothyDragon · 19/03/2012 17:59

PurpleRomanesco, I'm speechless at that, too. :(

Whoever put that comment up (Nadine OR Matt) has obviously never been there if they think it's ok to minimise rape in such a way.

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