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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 19/03/2012 17:08

Um, I agree that it is stoopid disgraceful to quote people out of context but it doesn't make any sense.

Rape.
Male.

Eh?

(That is not an invitation for one of the them to explain it to me, lest I lose the will to live.)

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 17:09

I wonder what Matthew Wright will make of that advert tomorrow? He will probably like the rest of the press ignore the attention seeking behaviour

LineRunner · 19/03/2012 17:09

These adverts certainly appear to be defamatory.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 17:10

i'm quite sure that saf knows how to spell paedophile, btw, so pedo must have been her making a point in the other direction, surely?

god i really do not know how to react to that. what are these people thinking? i swear i will never shop at M&S again if they succumb to this ridiculous bullying in any shape or form.

AnyFucker · 19/03/2012 17:11

I don't understand what Rape Male even means

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 17:11

i do agree, narked. but that shocked me beyond belief. it's so... bonkers.

AllQuietOnThePippisFront · 19/03/2012 17:11

That add is a home-goal!
Lost for words nevertheless.

VivaLeBeaver · 19/03/2012 17:12

The ad doesn't make sense to me.

Why does it say;

RAPE
MALE

in big blue letters at the top?

Hassled · 19/03/2012 17:13

Thank you Beachcomber - it made no sense to me either :o. It's almost as if it were possible that this hasn't been thought through.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 17:14

I spent over twenty pounds in a petrol station M&S, lovely Sushi, nom, nom, nom...

wheredidiputit · 19/03/2012 17:14

It must have taken them ages to troll through loads of posts to find the odd quote they could use. And most are probably completely out of context.

AnyFucker · 19/03/2012 17:15

they are all out of context

I wonder what a similar document would look like, if we did the same to that site

VivaLeBeaver · 19/03/2012 17:16

Oh the irony - I'm sure the "women hating little boys" comment was directed at some teenage boy forum which invaded us and spouted loads of anti-women, women hating abuse at us.

So a MN'er in reply said they were women hating little boys.
And now f4j are calling us boy hating women.

Its all about context innit?

PurpleRomanesco · 19/03/2012 17:16

Gosh, They really are desperate aren't they.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 17:19

it makes no sense. one persons quote is simply "rape" - one word that could have been taken from any sentence ever - such as 'there's rape growing in the field behind me and it's starting to stink now' (it is actually). my quote is a list of words without any context at all - the context by the way was that amongst people refused contact with their children point blank there would presumably be ".....". which is hardly me accusing men of being those things and would include women refused contact too Confused

they are outrageous.

NarkedPuffin · 19/03/2012 17:20

It's supposed to. Every time they don't get a reaction or media coverage they will try harder to get a reaction next time. They are desperately trying to goad us. That's why they're still posting on here and on the MN Facebook page etc. They don't get publicity unless they tag their name onto that of a bigger group.

fabwoman · 19/03/2012 17:20

NinthWave - they have Gypsy Tarts in my Asda, what do they taste like and do you want me to send you soon.

AnyFucker · 19/03/2012 17:22

fab Smile

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 17:22

if they had said this is what mumsnet thinks of f4j members at least some of the comments might have been accurate to use in that context. but to transpose that a disagreement with them is a disagreement with dun, dun, dun! MANKIND is a wee bit bizarre and grandiose.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 19/03/2012 17:23

By selecting individual posters and misrepresenting their posts I think they may well have strayed into defamation territory.

I suspect that taking words out of context is also misleading and so a breach of the CAP (ASA) code.

I assume they have good lawyers!

AnyFucker · 19/03/2012 17:24

grandiose

good word !

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 17:24

rape male? Confused

does it make sense to anyone??

AnyFucker · 19/03/2012 17:25

not a sausage

a comparison with "hate mail" ?

dunno

it's a bit shit, anyway

NarkedPuffin · 19/03/2012 17:25

AF, I'd usually be the first to collect the quotes from their site or others to show how quotes taken out of context are worthless. But they are not open to any reasoned discussion. They delete people from their Facebook page for disagreeing with their tactics. This is not the first site they've targeted. They have targeted solicitors and barristers! They are publicity hungry.

A site that wanted to help fathers first and foremost would offer free advice and support.

DuelingFanjo · 19/03/2012 17:26

"It must have taken them ages to troll through loads of posts to find the odd quote they could use. And most are probably completely out of context."

I wonder how long it took them to find the single word 'fuckwit' Grin

this is hilarious.... and if they want they can quote me on that... 'hilarious'!