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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 14:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

Babieseverywhere · 19/03/2012 14:55

What about Families need Fathers

At least their website talks about parenting and "maintaining a child's relationship with both parents"...sounds like a good charity to work with.

Kendodd · 19/03/2012 14:55

Very long thread, sorry haven't read it all.

What happened on their M&S demo on Saturday?

Anyone have a link?

SpringHeeledJack · 19/03/2012 14:56

hoh no, Aitch

no-one on tinternet

Tolalola · 19/03/2012 14:58

Gosh I though this was all dying down after the non event outside M&S on Saturday.

I am just wondering if it would be a good idea for those MNetters who've been singled out by F4J to make their profiles private for a bit so that there aren't any children's pictures etc on display? F4J seem to be being a bit erm.... misguidedly militant at the moment.

AbsofCroissant · 19/03/2012 15:00

They're bored and at a loss after the breastmilk ice cream place bombed

PurpleRomanesco · 19/03/2012 15:01

I still can't get past the 4 instead of For. It's just irritating.

SanctiMoanyArse · 19/03/2012 15:05

I got deleted Blush sorry MN, can't even remember what I typed!

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 15:05

i'm really hoping that mnhq are doing something behind the scenes to prevent their members comments and usernames being printed in the national press tomorrow - which is f4j's plan.

most of us write in good faith that mnhq owns what is written on this site and that as the owners they wouldn't use our words if we didn't want them used and would not pass them on to third parties to publish. we don't write on here expecting to be published in a national newspaper against our wishes.

am i right in thinking it can't be legal to publish me in a paper without my permission?? or am i being naive?

SanctiMoanyArse · 19/03/2012 15:06

' what they've done for fathers is nothing less than what Maggie did for women....outstanding. '

hear hear

JD2510 · 19/03/2012 15:07

swallowed.... I should think you are worried about your disgraceful comments being publicised widely.

If you write something on a blog or site then you have no control, so maybe you will think twice about posting such hatred again.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 15:08

i know i liked that comment to but wanted to replace 'women' with 'coal miners' just to make it that bit more blatant Grin

AbsofCroissant · 19/03/2012 15:08

To be fair though, they did open their parlour in Covent Garden which already has Scoop, which does the best ice cream in the universe, so they were kind of shafted from the beginning.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 15:08

what hatred is that JD????? would love to hear it but it doesn't exist. and mnhq owns the content here - it's not a free for all.

HelenMumsnet · 19/03/2012 15:10

Afternoon, all.

We think now might be a good time to repeat Justine's point no 10 (from her OP):

"Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either."

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 15:10

families need fathers is certainly a manifesto i (and i'd hazard most of MN) would agree with, perhaps HQ could contact them? can't see onto their forums at the moment, as haven't joined up and must go collect children from school etc.

i can't ever imagine the relationship between me and dh breaking down to the degree that i would want the children not to see him. it would break their hearts. i guess that's why i tend to the 'no smoke without fire' line wrt access problems, but if the problem lies with structure of family courts themselves then that's definitely something i'd be interested in doing a bit of letter-writing to help change.

louisepheonix · 19/03/2012 15:10

im shocked that some people can only use abuse, sarcasm and belittleling comments as a response. I personally support any parent regardless of gender, I can also see that mumsnet do some good work but it is bias to the female parent. We all know that there are parents of both sexes in this world who are lacking in their parenting abilities. The law and courts are bias towards the mother, many mothers make false degrading accusations about the fathers of their children and the man is guilty until proven innocent. The man then has to fight the system to prove his love and devotion to his child, many man have not seen their children for years and some never see their children again as they cant afford the fees. This is real and happening to innocent men and children losing their fathers that they want to see desperately. To try to belittle these men and rubbish their pain is so very wrong. Im so glad that the government are waking up to this matter and reviewing the laws on this matter, these bad mothers give us good mothers a bad name. I wonder how much abuse and childish comments i will receive for speaking the truth and giving my point of view.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 15:11

off to do important things like pick up my son from school and walk the dog and pick up some bits for tea. even those of us who run the evil feminist empire and the government and the family courts and the newspapers and ra ra ra ra still have to do these mundane little tasks. good job we can all multitask Smile

OracleInaCoracle · 19/03/2012 15:11

JD, not stalking you, but I clicked on this thread, and there you are, could you return to your thread please? I have done as you requested.

BIWI · 19/03/2012 15:11

MNHQ. Before you delete posts, please would you PM me the content? Then I can keep up better!

thanks

[smiile]

BIWI · 19/03/2012 15:12

FFS.

Smile

I can splel

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 15:12

no-one is belittling fathers' pain at not seeing their children, though, are they? i mean it's actually just not happening... i'm finding this thread a bit baffling, must be off.

FannyPriceless · 19/03/2012 15:13

Microwavable quinoa?

AbsofCroissant · 19/03/2012 15:14

louise - that is true, but to be honest, F4J isn't doing much good in terms of helping those sorts of fathers. What they do is dress in super hero costumes and put their lives at risk, make wildly innaccurate statements, cause disruption and twist comments made by individuals on a parenting website.

How does that help their children? How does that, in any way, help their cause? If they believe that the legal system is skewed against them, take it up through the appropriate channels and do it in a reasonable, adult and sensible fashion.

SanctiMoanyArse · 19/03/2012 15:15

I don;t support any parent regardless of gender

I do however support any loving, caring parent regardless of gender

if only it were the same thing.

Regarding the rest of your post Louise, I don;t know any men int hat sit but sounds awful- I do however known 3 women in it so if we could say ANY parent in receipt of false accusations made against them by a parent trying to manipulate the courts deserves our support, I would agree.

And now to nursery, adieu