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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 14:23

That is very true, Abs.

PosiePumblechook · 19/03/2012 14:24

"Kids are to often used as porns in parents stupid games! Its not fair! unless there is good reason no child should lose out on either parent." FRom F4J FB page.

Yes yes, children sure are used as porns.

runningforthebusinheels · 19/03/2012 14:25

Only read the first page of that Urban75, but i'm liking some of the comments:

"£200 on Mumsnet please"

"F4J starting on Mothers.
Do F4J have a PR dept?"

Grin
PosiePumblechook · 19/03/2012 14:27

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SanctiMoanyArse · 19/03/2012 14:30

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SanctiMoanyArse · 19/03/2012 14:31

Porns?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 14:31
swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 14:31

yeah on the thread on here the other night i pointed out that some of the men denied access will have been for very good reason, not all maybe but a significant number of those would present a very real danger to children and pointed out that given they do no checks whatsoever on their membership..... obvious conclusion. that is just a big of logic but in the f4j twist everything to pretend we're men hating women who deprive men of children style it will read as mnetter says all dads are pedophiles and dangerous Hmm

am thinking any rational, neutral reader would not see that in it somehow.

handbagCrab · 19/03/2012 14:31

My top M and S tip:

On the website, if you have an account you can add occasion reminders. You put in birthdays, wedding anniversaries etc and tell the site how far in advance to remind you of your event. So for me, a week before someone's birthday, I get an email from M and S telling me it's so and so's birthday. The email has links to the gift shop on the website so I can easily choose gifts for friends and family. It's working really well for me as no birthdays this year have been forgotten!

handbagCrab · 19/03/2012 14:33

They also do microwaveable pouches of quinoa that take a minute to cook! Amazing...

messyisthenewtidy · 19/03/2012 14:34

I feel like we're heading towards World War III or something.... Shock

Should I start stocking up on tins of beans?

runningforthebusinheels · 19/03/2012 14:34

Just had a look at Nadine's sample of MN quotes - which she calls "the best of the worst"

Well, if that's all she's got, she hasn't got a leg to stand on. There's nothing there that says what she has claimed - the very first quote says "SOME fathers."

Unless she wants to ban MN from ever saying anything horrible about any man's behaviour, I can't see her point.

PosiePumblechook · 19/03/2012 14:37

"Fathers 4 Justice - The Official Campaign Organisation Real Winter - can you email screen grabs of this sort of thing to [email protected]
13 minutes ago"

This is what they intend to do.

SanctiMoanyArse · 19/03/2012 14:40

Messy, M&S beans?

M&S also do a thing where you get a card stamped each time you buy a greeting card, leading to a free card on compeltion.

And the sticky toffee tart in their cafes is to die for, DH adores it. They also offer GF cakes in ours which is fab! And they usually have uniform items in stock the last week of the summer hols when everyone else is sold out.

I heart M&S

F4J? meh, not so much

SanctiMoanyArse · 19/03/2012 14:41

(They should do a special edition of Mumsnet Recommends... based on the M&S tips )

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 14:44

i do think that we should just ignore them, though, if poss. they seem to be foot-stamping toddlers in the main. praise the good (when it emerges), ignore the bad, and all that.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 14:45

because i think i can say with some confidence that the MN Massive wholly supports fathers being totally involved in their childrens' care, in the best interests of the child.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 14:45

Posie
yes, that is their plan then. To provoke us into saying something really horrible then use it against us.

I really like Matt and Nadine from that fluffy F4J campaign. They are obviously really nice people who have the interests of all children at heart, and work hard to help families come to a compromise on access.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 14:46

yy, Aitch. Is there not some way we could turn this around, and support a charity or campaign that actually works with both parents to find a solution for access, even in tricky situations?

NinthWave · 19/03/2012 14:47

Second sanctimoanyarse about the sticky toffee tart. Nearest thing I've ever found to my much-loved Kentish delicacy, the Gypsy tart...argh I want some now!

SpringHeeledJack · 19/03/2012 14:51

MN wholly supports fathers being totally involved in their childrens' care, in the best interests of the child

hoh yes; amen to that

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 14:51

good idea, MmeLindt. i object to this idea that MN is unsupportive of fathers and the unbefarkinglievably important role they have in a child's life, i really do. (and i speak as someone on the record as preferring that this be a female-only space). if there are anti-men threads, or even thoughtful musings about how MN as a female-only space might be fun Grin, i can say from experience that the OP gets her head kicked in. Wink

liking women just doesn't mean hating men, anyone who'd suggest such a thing would have to be a bit screwy in the head.

does anyone know of any charities working to make family law better?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 14:52

were you glaring at me, SpringheeledJack?

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 14:52

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PosiePumblechook · 19/03/2012 14:55

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