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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 13:33

Not surprised that SWC deregged, considering the comments about her.

Nadine
I know you are reading this. Why do you persist in posting only the comments by Mnetters, and not the abusive comments by your members?

And what part of "We don't hate all men, we just hate the abusive, lying sleazeballs" do you not understand?

There is NOTHING there that says "all men are [insert insult]". So what is your point?

SixtyFootDoll · 19/03/2012 13:44

Does this mean I can eat my own body weight in Percy pigs?

MsNorbury · 19/03/2012 13:47

LOOK

ive bene trolling since you lot were in nappies Wink
just STOP TALKING ABOUT THEM

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 13:52

I just posted this on Nadine's comment thread:

What part of "We don't hate all men, we just hate the ones who are abusive, lying sleazeballs" do you not understand?

There is NOTHING there that says "all men are [insert insult]". So what is your point? Some posters on MN dislike your organisation and have been mildly insulting towards some of the members. Any truly abusive posts were deleted by Mumsnet, as per the rules of that website. We actually encourage discussions and allow opposing views. Which is more that can be said for you, since you blocked Lissie and Frothydragon from posting on your FB wall.

it was deleted within a minute of going up and I have been blocked from commenting.

Nadine
I know you are following this thread. I would like to say publicly, that I was neither abusive nor offensive. I stated my opinion. Obviously only people in agreement with F4J are allowed to state their opinion.

Look back over the many threads about this. Were any comments from F4J supporters deleted, other than those that were posted on multiple threads (so considered to be spam) or those that were abusive?

No, because we on MN encourage honest debate.

You are lobbying advertisers of MN while sticking your fingers in your ears and singing lalalalalalala if anyone disagrees with you. My 7 year old son knows better than to do that. He knows that if he wants to get his point across and win and argument, he has to speak clearly, outline his points and let the other person put their version of the story over. Only then can we make a decision based on both sides of the story.

Shame on you and your organisation.

SoupDragon · 19/03/2012 13:52

I asked a question on their FB page about the common about shooting a MNer and asking what comments had prompted the responses they'd pasted above and they appear to have deleted these and blocked me from commenting.

Nothing like freedom of speech and hearing both sides of an argument is there? Rather says all anyone needs to know about F4J IMO.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 13:54

Yup. I am DONE. I will stay for the M&S tips and the general banter on this thread, but am done posting to and about them.

Except to laugh and point.

SoupDragon · 19/03/2012 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Snapespeare · 19/03/2012 13:55

Thank you for that link MmeLindor

I am having trouble grasping how SWCs last comment on that link could be seen as attempting to cause 'genderhatred'...

One of my comments was deleted on a previous thread. Part of the trouble with deletions is that we don't really know what was deleted after the dleetion hammer falls, so it could range from the outrageously profanity peppered personal attack to a sweeping generalisation about the collective intelligence of a group that thinks public nudity is a good idea in relation to the family courts and child custody issues. hey ho.

it's probably also a bit iffy to have the tagline 'bum's the word' it either has an association with 'non resident fathers = 'bums' in the older american use of the word, or that 'mums' equate to 'bums', which doesn't exactly get my sympathy.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 13:56

I am sure there is a wealth of jokes in there about

Not just a normal Man. A F4J idiotic Man. Not sponsored by M&S.

etc

Or we need to get back to haikus. I love a good haiku but am too think to write them well

SanctiMoanyArse · 19/03/2012 14:00

' By deleting my post you confirmed that you are unable to back up your claims and that you are a sham organisation. Nadine O'Connor Campaign Director '

Given my own reponse that by harming MN they would remove support from many parents of disabled children was deleted and I was blovked from posting- well

Oh just imagine my swearwords, it is easier than forcing Mn to delete on such a busy day

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 14:01

it's not the first time we've had our posts and usernames plastered all over misogynistic sites.

what's laughable is that anyone reasonable reading those quotes will be able to see that they are talking about specifics not generalised anti male-ness. if that's the best they could pick to try and make out we don't like men there obviously wasn't much to pick from.

MNHQ can you do something about them copy and pasting us like that - i have posted on their facebook page and yet my words are being taken from here and plastered on a site of a group with some questionable characters in it. i don't want to have to delete my whole history again.

SoupDragon · 19/03/2012 14:04

It's rather nice that Nadine, by her own words, deems her organisation is unable to back up their claims and that they are a sham organisation ;)

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 14:04

SAF
I have reported your post to MNHQ. I agree. It is not on that they are lifting our posts out of context and posting them elsewhere.

SanctiMoanyArse · 19/03/2012 14:08

Glad you did MmeL

Mumsnet is obviously a step above the F4J people because the thing about MN is that all posts have a right of reply; clearly not something F4J values.

Can't find SWC's email, used to have it, but if anyone in contact with her please pass on my sympathies- she was treated appallingly.

Calamityboo · 19/03/2012 14:11

oh god, i'm worried now, we could have put anything in a post and out of context it could seem really controversial!!

BeerTricksPott3r · 19/03/2012 14:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 14:15

calamity, welcome to the world of cafcass and the legal profession, to be fair to F4J, everything they are doing to MN I suspect they learned from the family courts, the big set up, as that is so often a tactic used, misquoting and out of context!

DuelingFanjo · 19/03/2012 14:16

Nice thread on urban75 particularly like the comment from Garek.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 14:16

Yes, and there are women on MN who have escaped abusive relationships. They do not need to be outed by this mob.

Nadine is consistently deleting any comment from MNetters. It almost makes me want to flood her timeline with comments, but that would be harassment and trolling. Which we don't do.

AbsofCroissant · 19/03/2012 14:18

F4J are coming across as a bit, I don't know, stupid and hysterical, getting their knickers in a twist over some comments on a website, on a day that a father and his two young children were shot down in cold blood.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 14:19

There will be nothing for them to twist if you STOP engaging!

SoupDragon · 19/03/2012 14:20

From that urban75 site

"This is likely to lead to an alliance between F4J and Gina Ford, isn't it? That'll be problematic when they scale shopping centres dressed as Batman to whine about access rights over megaphones, but have to climb down for their nap at 15:00 sharp"

LOLOL

BeerTricksPott3r · 19/03/2012 14:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 14:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 14:22

I bet M&S are proper shitting themselves at the idea of a boycott by F4J.
Do they do a meal for one with a bottle of wine?

Love that comment. Hahaha.