Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
PattiMayor · 19/03/2012 11:05

Ooh sAf - I didn't know M&S did those! I got some in H&M in france last year but they'll be too small this summer and I've never seen them in the UK.

I highly recommend their 'Terribly Clever' range (despite the shite name) if you're having someone over to eat. Really easy and low stress to make delicious posh tasting food with minimal intervention, leaving you more time to get on with chatting and Wine

TwllBach · 19/03/2012 11:06

I am more of a lurker than a poster, but I have been following the f4j threads with interest.

I am not a mother, but I spend a lot of time on MN and have done for the last year and a half or so. I have received bucketloads of support when I have needed it, as well as a good kick up the jacksy when required.

I am proud to be a part of Mumsnet, no matter how small. I think, on the whole, it does a stirling job and provides comfort, advice, no nonsense words of sense and humour for those who need it. As a community, I have seen it extend support to those who need it that goes far beyond the reach of any normal website and proves to me time and time again how decent the human spirit can be.

I think Justine's statement hits the right notes. I think it includes the right amount of humour to show just how little MNHQ actually care about these silly little escapades, as well as making sure that the rest of MN know that she and the rest of HQ are on our side.

There will always be men and women that seek to keep the wider world down. Unfortunately, it is often women that suffer, and, as a result, children. The importance of a site like Mumsnet is really highlighted when this happens, as it acts as a gathering place for likeminded people to come together and be reassured that their are support systems out there.

This was a lot longer than I intended, and not as coherent as I would like, but I am tired of seeing bullies stomping around calling the shots. There is enough of that going on at the moment.

JD2510 · 19/03/2012 11:08

MmeLindor.... The vast majority of MN are not extremist but similar with F4J and other shared parenting groups.

It is the minor extremist elements in MN and F4J that those who run them should be rooting out and getting rid of.

hippoCritt · 19/03/2012 11:13

They didn't see Justine on Question time if they say that about her IQ!

NarkedPuffin · 19/03/2012 11:14

They make very nice chorley cakes.

NarkedPuffin · 19/03/2012 11:18

No Hippo, but the person who runs their site saw fit to join in.

Now back to the big issue...

I bought a nice scarf from there last month.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 11:20

Twllbach
Yes, I agree that Justine's statement was good. It may have seemed a bit flippant to outsiders, but it was typical British/MNetty humour, I though.

Anyone who refers to groups of people on a website as "extremists" then demands the whole website be changed is skating on thin ice.

MNHQ deleted the posts that were reported as being offensive. They reminded and reprimanded their users to be polite and non-offensive. What more do F4J want? Other than free publicity?

Saying that, it is great free publicity for MN and for M&S too. I do think that MN should work more closely with M&S, since we are all shopping like MAD there. In fact, I am going to check out the new Simply Food shop this afternoon.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 11:21

Sooooooo, talk to me about food at M&S.

I have recently returned from living abroad and don't really shop in M&S for food. What should I buy?

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 11:23

someone who cba should report that epic cut and paste and point out it is being plastered all over the place on here and is spam.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 11:24

are you in the uk now then mme lindor? i didn't realise. are you staying?

PattiMayor · 19/03/2012 11:24

Ooh I didn't know you'd moved back, MmeL! Welcome home :)

Give the terribly clever thyme and shallot sauce a go - it's lovely with baked chicken, spinach and their ready cubed butternut squash.

The wraps are ace too

PeggyCarter · 19/03/2012 11:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VivaLeBeaver · 19/03/2012 11:24

Are F4J allowed to "screen grab" large chunks of messages from here. MN own the copyright. I hope Justine sues 'em.

Now on the other thread someone mentioned about M&s CRAYFISH AND MANGO SALAD - can you still get it? I love it and haven't seen it for ages.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 11:26
Thanks
MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 11:26

yy, am back home with my parents until we get a house.

AlistairSim · 19/03/2012 11:27

Swallowed - I have a wall you can borrow if you need something to bang your head against.

Grin
MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 11:28

oh, good point, Viva.

Screengrabs of comments that have been deleted are pointless. They only show that MNHQ deleted the comments, which is erm good of MNHQ, non?

BeerTricksPott3r · 19/03/2012 11:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FrozenNorthPole · 19/03/2012 11:29

Off to shop for some maternity clothes on the M&S website now, thanks for the reminder up-thread that they sell 'em.

I'm a sucker for M&S prepared food. LOVE the four cheese ravioli, salmon and watercress salad with new potatoes and their ham, cheese and pickle sandwiches. We also enjoyed the haddock gratin, mashed potato and pecan and apple crumble from their 'dine in' deal this weekend - not having to cook was a fabulous mother's day present.

BeerTricksPott3r · 19/03/2012 11:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 11:29

welcome home mmelindor. may the force be with you for staying with parents! you will appreciate your house soooo much when you find it and move in Smile

LadySybilDeChocolate · 19/03/2012 11:32

I posted this on t'other thread.

What you fail to realise is that this is a public forum and is unmoderated. Members are free to post what they want, if it's unacceptable then it's removed if someone reports it. As for this:

"Describing all men as ?needle dicks?
Describing fathers as ?fascists? and being akin to the Klu Klux Klan.
Describing fathers ?alcoholics, wife-beaters, women-haters, abusers, paedophiles?.
Attacking the children of fathers as being indoctrinated and ?brainwashed?.
Describing men as ?fuckwits?, ?scum?, ?go fuck themselves with a shitty stick?.
Describing Fathers4Justice content as ?porn involving children?
Describing female supporters of Fathers4Justice are ?Handmaidens? (Female sex slave).
Abusive personal attacks on men and women in Fathers4Justice ."

You're talking bollocks. Where are the posts? I'm a regular user, I'm also a mother of a son. At no time in the last 4 years have I read such comments. I did read a comment on facebook where one of your members threatened a mother, telling her that she should be 'shot' and she was a leader of the 'KKK'. The stunt which was pulled over the weekend brings your cause nothing but shame and it makes you look like a bunch of fools. You're damaging the plight of single father's by your bullying tactics.

This is getting really tedious now.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 11:32

Thanks, SAF. I will keep that thought in mind in the coming months.

Have you all seen the MN M&S Hub?

SanctiMoanyArse · 19/03/2012 11:34

Dear F4J

I like men, boys, women and girls. I have no problems with any gender, and I consider myself lucky to have 4 boys and a dear husband whom I treasure very much.

But I also like MN; I don't post here as much as I used to as I am setting up a business and have less time, however MN has kept me sane whilst all 4 children were picked up with various disabiltiies and SN; it has inspired me to better my chances with a degree and now MA, and the support I have seen on here is incredible.

if you damage MN, you take that away from many people- vulnerable people, people with disabled children and in danger or cisk.

if that does not concern you, something is wrong.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 11:34

do we get discounts or anything for M&S?

Swipe left for the next trending thread