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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
NarkedPuffin · 19/03/2012 10:43

I have slipper boots from M&S. they make my feet happy.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 10:43

never tried their maternity wear.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 10:44

i love slipper boots! try this for a confession - last week i bought myself one of those granny shopping trolley things and i LOVE it!

KRITIQ · 19/03/2012 10:45

Falafel is a wonderful word indeed (and making me hungry just saying it!)

DH has a couple of gorgeous but easy care suits from M & S - he looks really stunning in them.

(shock, someone from MN compliments a man - who'd have thunk it!)

ScrambledSmegs · 19/03/2012 10:45

By the way, MN have never allowed 'hate' on their forums, and to claim they have is disingenuous. See the Talk Guidelines . It is, however, a very big forum, and sometimes it takes a while for HQ to catch up with all the reported posts.

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 19/03/2012 10:46

The M&S cafe in my town is on the list of breastfeeding friendly places.

KRITIQ · 19/03/2012 10:46

Just going to go change to an M & S top for the meeting I'm off to shortly! :)

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 10:46

ds has those supercute flip flops with the strap that sits on the heel so they actually stay on from there. he loves them.

that's my son by the way, the one who is a boy, who i love Smile

BeerTricksPott3r · 19/03/2012 10:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 10:47

We thought the M&S roast potates were lovely, num nom!

KRITIQ · 19/03/2012 10:47

Oh, and I just remembered, I love those buzzy things they give you in the cafe when you order to tell you your food is ready. Scared the bejeezus out of me first time one went off though, but the resulting jacket potato was cooked to perfection!

Henry1980 · 19/03/2012 10:47

All this talk of food has me hungry but i'm on a diet :(

JD2510 · 19/03/2012 10:47

My M&S slippers are very comfortable, have a spare pair for when the dog finally destroys them completely :-)

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 10:47

do people usually have sex with and spend 18yrs plus nurturing people they hate?

Blackduck · 19/03/2012 10:49

oh SAF those flipflops are great aren't they! ds loved his - I am liking the multi coloured plimsoles but his feet are too big now :(
However, I bought a pair of boys trainers (for me) ......

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 10:49

I saw Percy pig easter eggs, I think the dc will really enjoy them!

NarkedPuffin · 19/03/2012 10:50

Shock but rather Envy at your granny shopping trolley.

DH loves their 'Sartorial' shirts for work. And he looks lovely Wink

BeerTricksPott3r · 19/03/2012 10:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DharmaLovesDraco · 19/03/2012 10:57

Percy Pigs and their Crayfish and Mango salad - just not together Grin

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 10:58

Anyone else confused about the fact that most of those making statements on this matter state they are NOT F4J members?

You also state that the person (who was not a F4J member) who said that SGB should be shot, was rebuked by other F4J supporters. Just like on MN, when someone steps over the line, they are told off, or reported to MNHQ.

If he posted in support of F4J, then he is a supporter. It is disingenuous to suggest that anyone does not toe the party line is not one of you.

They are already telling us that F4J (and by association every dad in the land) are bullying and intimidating them in this latest campaign

That is quite simply tosh. (thanks for that word, SwallowedAFly)

If I say that I don't like David Cameron and George Osborne, am I saying that I don't like any British men? Or I don't like male politicians? I can express an opinion about a certain person, or a group of people (such as the male members of the Conservative party, stating that I think they are a bunch of privileged, out-of-touch, public school wankers, for instance) but that does not mean that I think ALL men are privileged, out-of-touch, public school wankers.

Just the Tory Boys.

And I am sure that there are some perfectly pleasant Tory politicians somewhere maybe

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 10:59

NP - it took some doing to resist the model that had a little seat attached but i thought that was maybe a step too far.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 10:59

I am making a point of shopping in M&S all week, I will also inform the Manager of why I am doing so, each time!

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 11:02

Nadine
I am not an extremist. I am a very nice person. I love men. I have a very nice husband and a very nice son.

You are being ridiculous.

What are your thoughts on Per Una jeans (that is to the MNetters, not to Nadine). I do like mine but worry about the uncool Per Una thing.

BeerTricksPott3r · 19/03/2012 11:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 11:04

They are posting that response in various places, I just saw it in politics!

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