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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
SanctiMoanyArse · 19/03/2012 11:34

And I need to buy ds4 a jacket this week, will make sure it is from M&S X

PeggyCarter · 19/03/2012 11:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 11:36

Yes, LadyS. I am interested in the screen grabs. I hope they have left the posts that led to these comments, and will not just show the posts out of context.

I have never seen a post on MN stating that ALL men are needledicks/fascists/alcoholic/wifebeaters etc.

Blu · 19/03/2012 11:38

And yet so many MN-ers harbour one of these awful creatures in their home! (a male partner or husband that is). And love them and post many threads asking for ideas for presents and birthday treats for them. And describe them as brilliant Dads. And remind women who are devastated by an affair that they must not use their children as a weapon or as veangance. And support men who find themselves badly treated by a woman.
MN is comprised of good and bad women and good and bad men. Just like the world.

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 19/03/2012 11:39

''It is the minor extremist elements in MN and F4J that those who run them should be rooting out and getting rid of.''

Hi Fathers Rights. Well, as F4J seem to think that the definition of an extremist is ''people what don't like F4J'', that would mean, at this current point of time and looking at the amount of support MN has against F4J who want to restrict our free speech, that would mean getting rid of a significant chunk of the MN membership.

suzy82 · 19/03/2012 11:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

SoupDragon · 19/03/2012 11:40

"SoupDragon, MN removed 60 odd posts from MN regulars after the protests of F4J. Well done MN but they should not have been allowed to be there in the first place of course."

So, you can't actually show any examples of the posts you are trying to complain about?

The posts were deleted. What exactly is your problem? MNHQ can't stop people saying things, they can only deal with them when things are brought to their attention. Which they did.

So the problem is...?

VivaLeBeaver · 19/03/2012 11:41

I seriously think that they may have shot themselves in the foot with the screengrabs - there has to be a copyright issue. I'm sure MN has more finanacial clout and better lawyers. Grin

SoupDragon · 19/03/2012 11:43

I have been on MN for 10 years. I have never seen any kind of "gender hatred".

I have seen plenty of hatred of tossers of both sexes but gender hatred? No. None whatsoever.

I have seen plenty of personal attacks which are dealt with in one of two ways (or both). 1) other posters tell the offending one that they are an offensive twat and 2) MNHQ delete it when it is reported to them. Usually very quickly.

SoupDragon · 19/03/2012 11:43

"I seriously think that they may have shot themselves in the foot with the screengrabs - there has to be a copyright issue"

I doubt that very much.

suzy82 · 19/03/2012 11:45

Oh yes ... and I'm not a feminist (although I do believe in equal rights for all genders, colours, nationalities and creeds) - I adore my husband and son and even get along with my ex husband - all of whom agree that naked blokes running around a supermarket is a bit of a silly way to get your point across Hmm

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 11:45

JoyfulPuddleJumper
It is fine actually, most of the time. Bit cramped but we are having massive problems getting a mortgage so might be a while here-

Tiago · 19/03/2012 11:46

Haven't been in M&S for a while. Will pop along on Saturday.

SoupDragon · 19/03/2012 11:51

JD, have you actually seen gender hatred on MN or are you just saying it's there because you were told it was?

BIWI · 19/03/2012 11:55

I am dressed top-to-toe today in M&S.

Even Shock wearing some Per Una ... Grin

DuelingFanjo · 19/03/2012 12:01

"Kids are to often used as porns in parents stupid games!"

this made me Shock on the F4J FB page.

I mean - Really!?

BIWI · 19/03/2012 12:03

Fancy, Dueling, not be able to know whether it's 'to' or 'too'!

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 12:05

fanjo, Shock

Pooka · 19/03/2012 12:05

DuellingFanjo!! I saw the porn/pawn comment. Arf! Grin

LadySybilDeChocolate · 19/03/2012 12:05

Do you think they mean pawns Dueling? Wink

BIWI · 19/03/2012 12:09

Marks and Spencer do lovely prawns.

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 19/03/2012 12:10

o i c, they're going to make another ad featuring screen grabs and it will be 'shocking'.

nenevomito · 19/03/2012 12:11

Maybe we should have a "Wear M&S for Mum&Snet" day?

MiseryBusiness · 19/03/2012 12:13

Just brought DD's some clothes from M&S.

Loving their Limited range at the moment too! Grin

UnChartered · 19/03/2012 12:14

as long as it's not from the 'Speciale' range, baby

i'm not that dedicated Grin

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