Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

[JustineMumsnet]

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.

1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.

1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.

1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.

1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.

1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.

1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.

1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.

10. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

god that was some 1 + 1 equals whatever bit of nonsense i feel like twisting it into to support my agenda logic there.

you're right YF.

swallowed.... Sure you can hate what you like as long as you don't use it as a generalisation for putting down a gender, sexual orientation, race etc

Or it is not a personal attack on a public forum, imho.

Not saying you have personally of course.

Thanks to Justine for a clear, informative post about the F4J advert. I hadn't actually seen it, or even heard about it until the MN threads. Maybe the media just isn't very interested in them anymore?

It seems strange that instead of focusing on the rights of fathers (the very thing they were set up to promote), they've been side-tracked into attacking organisations that support parents. I assume that one of the reasons they've gone after MN is that they think it's the best way to get into the national press, as MN has a high media profile.

which no one has JD so i'm glad we're agreed.

Disappointed with the astounding failure of their naked M&S protest, F4J go back to their original plan of trying to provoke forum wars, then running away and crying victim.

whereas f4j is full of inflammatory and sweeping judgements about women.

this is like a bizarre world of reversal isn't it? just keep saying black is white for long enough and you think people will believe you?

Seriously folks - ignore. I'm guessing someone elsewhere has spotted this thread and it's like opening a jar of honey for the flies to swarm into. The intention of this thread by MNHQ was to explain the position of MN to the campaign waged against the organisation and its members. It has also provided an opportunity for MN members to express their support, ask questions, find out more, etc. Don't let those who would seek to silence MN and its members hijack it for their own agenda. They are trying their damnedest to trap people, one of their members has already made a threat of violence against an MN member, it's simply not worth going there, no matter how hard they pick and taunt, like little boys in the playground pulling at pigtails.

right.

what is your favourite m&s product? i lived on their lemon cheesecake whilst pregnant - luuurrvely.

i kind of rate their pants too.

Scrambled... there was probably some of the publicity aspect involved but there were some nasty postings by MN regulars which had to be deleted by MN (70 at least).

Its good to see MN not allowing hate on their forums, hope it continues. I'd expect the same from F4J or any other organisation as well of course....

I think it would be an excellent idea for MN to approach perhaps an organisation like Families need Fathers to get their point of view on the family court system, take F4J out of it for now but don't turn a blind eye to the issue.

I think I've stated this before but what really concerns me is the lack of evidence that the outcomes for children who have been involved with the family court have indeed been in their best interests, that's what the current fuss is all about, so lets find out for sure.

KRITIQ/Stewie.... The posts are on the FB page that show that F4J members condemned him from making the comment about shooting.

I know you guys want to make the most of this but to keep repeating it falsely as if the guy was a F4J member (you don't know that) and it was not condemned by other people who were arguing against you, is disingenuous to say the least.

If we don't talk then people remain ignorant of others views, ignorance breeds hatred, hope you agree.

When I was at uni, I used to always pop in to M&S for lunch and get one of their delicious chicken and bacon sandwiches, probably part of the reason I put on 2 stones over those 3 years

Response to Justine on the F4J facebook page...

I like that their products are cruelty free and their fabric softeners are about the best around.

Does anyone have experience of M&S maternity clothing?

I like their falafel. I even like the word falafel.

saf - DH & I love their wensleydale cheese and carrot chutney sandwich. It's outstandingly addictive.

I'm off to M&S today :)

yes i buy my pj bottoms from their teen boy range - lovely cotton, nice fit and way cheaper than they would be in a woman's size.

i used to be hooked by the egg and prawn rolls they did when i worked in town.

Scrambled- I agree- the amusing thing is it has backfired on them as the media have totally ignored it as far as I can see, so much for the oxygen of publicity.

Now if we can all just ignore the trolls as well then hopefully we can continue to have reasoned debate where we can agree to disagree when needed.