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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
legoballoon · 19/03/2012 06:54

So, the week I finally go cold turkey from MN in order to read a book tidy the house, it all kicks off.

F4J start paying for M&S advertising, a major online bunfight breaks out, and ... my DH has to tell me all about it. Because, being the inclusive website that MN is, he now has an MN habit (a good one, I hasten to add!).

Let that be a lesson to me. Next time I feel like popping a copy of "I" into the trolley, I shall leave it on the shelf, rush home, and log on.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 06:59

yeah i'll still shop at M&S (got a lovely shawl/wrap affair from there recently) but i shan't be buying the independent.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 07:00

good point lego - f4j has given mumsnet and m&s free publicity whilst making themselves look like petty, bullying, irrational nobbers. money well spent boys Smile

CiderwithBuda · 19/03/2012 07:39

It is such a shame that a valid cause is represented so publicly by an organisation with zero credibility.

Loving the Mothers4justine t-shirt idea!

About to order some garden furniture from M&S - is there a link on here anywhere that I can use to link the order to MN?

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2012 08:07

i think we need a counter campaign called 'mothers4justice' that talks about the amount of men who don't pay child support, don't take an active role in their children's lives and for all the children who are forced to have contact with an abusive father that they don't want to see.

Bossybritches22 · 19/03/2012 08:10

I'd be interested to know how M&S figures pan out for this w/e! Grin

AliceHurled · 19/03/2012 08:11

Gender hatred isn't a crime. Lots of hatreds are, but gender somehow got missed off the list. Just mentioning that as a point of interest, rather than in direct response to any F4J bollox.

glenthebattleostrich · 19/03/2012 08:18

I'm disgusted at F4J attacking Gingerbread, they were a massive help to my Brother when he was fighting for custody of his DD's and continue to help and support him.

Yes F4J, you read that right a bloke (with a woman as a solicitor) won full residency of his children and he didn't even wear a dress to court!!!

Well done MN and Thanks for Justine, I'm now off to email M&S to show support.

JD2510 · 19/03/2012 08:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

BIWI · 19/03/2012 09:08

Bullying?
Self-righteous?

No.
Bye.

Nyac · 19/03/2012 09:09

a) who are you calling weak?

b) what a load of bollocks - the downside of blogging, anybody can start typing and think they've got something interesting or useful to say. Most don't.

Dillytante · 19/03/2012 09:15

JD, I can't tell who you are or your motivation for posting that. There are many things wrong with it but this is the most striking one They are already telling us that F4J (and by association every dad in the land) are bullying and intimidating them in this latest campaign

No where in any of this has there been any kind of association of all men to this bunch of bitter idiots. In fact none of the men in my life could be further from F4J in terms of behaviour and attitudes.

It is F4J who are associating all women with the ex's which they so hate. They are tarring all women with their bitterness. They are projecting their own issues. They are thinking irrationally and seeing irrationality in MN where it doesn't exist.

Dillytante · 19/03/2012 09:16

Urge, and I really resent the use of womenfolk

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 19/03/2012 09:22

He has posted this diatribe on several FWR threads. I think it is pretty clear what his motivation for posting is.

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/03/2012 09:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JD2510 · 19/03/2012 09:44

F4J are just asking for men and women to be treated equally in all aspects of life, work, play and at home.

Surely you do not disagree?

KRITIQ · 19/03/2012 09:45

JD already started a thread on this blog in FWR forum, but it was already picked up on yesterday by Norma Stanley Fletcher (with some interesting convo after it) here.

Wee suggestion - rather than letting JD succeed in his attempt to hijack this thread, those who would like to discuss Woodall's blog post go to the thread linked above. (Thus ends the Public Service Announcement! :) )

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 09:47

Posters like JD are obviously not in the majority, very cleaver use of language. Thankfully MNetters have the intelligence to see through as Dilly has proved.

Henry1980 · 19/03/2012 09:49

JD, I can't help thinking how important it is that the issues F4J & many other NRP groups feel so strongly about need the oxygen of publicity, I dont know how that is best achieved but, there is a long history of campaigners performing all sorts of stunts to raise awareness of their own personal "injustice" and this latest one has certainly got MN talking.
Maybe Matt O'Connor should follow others example and throw himself in front of the Monarch's horse or set himself on fire, I know I've felt like doing just that at times.

Pinot · 19/03/2012 09:49

I shall go to M&S and buy some knickers.

You're welcome.

JD2510 · 19/03/2012 09:50

Sophie, I am in the majority. I believe in treating men and women equally and fairly. I hope you are in that majority as well.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 09:52

I was referring to your use of language JD, again a cleaver use of language to manipulate conversation....

JD2510 · 19/03/2012 09:52

Henry, the suffragettes did; vandalize paintings; physically attack politicians; plant bombs etc

F4J merely climb buildings (in the past) and do naked demonstrations (with g-strings) outside M&S - Not a patch on the suffragettes.....

JD2510 · 19/03/2012 09:53

Sophie, please don't get paranoid. Equality is a simple concept.

KatieMiddleton · 19/03/2012 09:54

None of F4J's actions show they are working towards that aim JD. I stand by my previous post and have no more to add.

I do not wish to give F4J any more of a platform so I'm done.