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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 18/03/2012 13:50

I think F4J do have a point to a certain extent. However, they come across as a bunch of twats. There are ways to get your point across that don't make you look like the sort of person who shouldn't have responsibility for a child.

ThreeLittlePandas · 18/03/2012 14:41

I just read an interview with Matt O'Connor from a few years back. The mother of his youngest child, Nadine O'Connor, who was his girlfriend at the time of the article but is now his wife and a F4J campaigner, has a child from her first marriage. In the article it is reported that she stopped her ex husband from seeing this child!!! I don't know for how long or why but doesn't that smack of double standards!?

BIWI · 18/03/2012 15:26

I wonder if now is the time to get our 'Mothers4Justine' t-shirts designed and printed?!

NormaStanleyFletcher · 18/03/2012 15:31

BIWI fab idea

LineRunner · 18/03/2012 15:32

Run that past me again ... Nadine O'Connor reportedly stopped her ExH from seeing their child?

Did she ever rebut this allegation, I wonder.

Surely a libel case must have ensued, into which F4J poured their hearts, souls and money?

justwishes · 18/03/2012 15:46

Hi all

On here showing sisterly solidarity with you all.

Not sure I'm up to a debate on F4J FB so may avoid a little while longer.

LineRunner · 18/03/2012 16:27

Oh and on another thread on here a F4J apologist (note: it comes across as she or he is an apologist) says that the Leo Blair kidnap plot story, which was widely published in the press, was fabricated.

Could someone remind me about the libel case on that one, too?

There must have been a libel case, surely, into which F4J poured their hearts, souls and money?

welliesandpyjamas · 18/03/2012 16:48

What a mad bunch of frogs they are! Didn't realise how deluded it all was!

Anyone get the idea behind the Olympics?!

Anyway, Marks & Spencers here we come, can't afford it but more than willing to do my little bit to show F4J that they can't win.

Feel bad for MNHQ. As the old saying goes, "this too shall pass"

VivaLeBeaver · 18/03/2012 17:01

Ha ha - I was in Oxford St yesterday and saw him getting arrested. Had no idea it was him. I thought it was another lot of people protesting about shops not paying tax - there were loads causing problems at Topshop. Police everywhere.

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 18/03/2012 17:19

threelittlepandas, do you have a link to that article?

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 18/03/2012 17:20

''Just been told I'm bigger than Matt by DW . I think that's good! ''

Tanith's DH, not unless she was talking about your beer belly. Grin

MmeLindor. · 18/03/2012 18:51

Haha at M4J tshirts. Good idea, BIWI.

Is that true about Nadine? She has been very vocal against MN.

suzy82 · 18/03/2012 19:48

I've been watching the posts on MN by members of F4J with my jaw on the floor. All I can say is go Justine for handling this in such a civilised, mature fashion. I think yesterday's antics have wiped their agenda completely and shown them for what they really are (although, courtesy of Matt we've probably now all seen much more than than we actually wanted to!) - running naked around M&S will draw attention to what exactly, other than the fact that he's completely barking mad Wink . God bless them, let's hope Matt gets the help he so obviously needs and good fathers who have genuine issues get a forum that helps them in a dignified, mature way.

suzy82 · 18/03/2012 19:50

Oh yes, also bought a huge bouquet for my mum in M&S yesterday and, just for the cause of course, another for myself Wink - there may have been some chocolates and champagne too .....

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 18/03/2012 19:51

i do hope i'll be able to buy my mothers4justine t-shirt at marksandspencer.com...
have spent small fortune there today in solidarnosc. Grin

Bunnyjo · 18/03/2012 20:23

I honestly think that if F4J spent more time actively helping absent fathers through the RIGHT channels (CAFCASS, Courts, mediation etc) and not on a stupid hate filled vendetta against innocent parties an ill thought out attack on other organisations, then they may actually achieve something other than notoriety.

PosiePumblechook · 18/03/2012 20:33

Gasp Mother's 4 Justine!! I'm in!! Fan bloody tastic.

PosiePumblechook · 18/03/2012 20:33

rogue apostrophe sorry

naturalbaby · 18/03/2012 20:42

For such a lot of fuss I can't find any news coverage on their little protest at M&S, other than on their own FB page.

It doesn't take much to find hundreds of posts of real and practical support on MN so I (naively) cannot see what they are reading to cause such uproar.

suzy82 · 18/03/2012 20:52

Yup, nothing at all apart from what they've put on their FB page and some tube footage and pics with blokes running around in their undies (nothing says I need time with my kids like exposing yourself in front of the general public). Nothing on the news, in the papers or online - nowt, nada - so, all in all, no exposure for exposing and frankly they look a bit silly, poor chaps.

Wittsend13 · 18/03/2012 23:16

I'm sat reading the F4J fb page. What a protest! All that media coverage they gained.....

I love M&S. Nothing would ever stop me from shopping there.

Bossybritches22 · 18/03/2012 23:51

wittsend its quite a read isn't it? Confused

Talk about frothing, the silly sods will need Camomile tea & Gaviscon by the shedload the way they're going on!

TheWisdomOfSolomum · 19/03/2012 02:00

Are they going to target Iceland next? Cos I hear that's where mums go ...

I would really like a Mothers4Justine t-shirt, v-neck please as have big boobs. Any colour will do. And are we allowed the '4' or will it be 'for', this is MN afterall.

TheWisdomOfSolomum · 19/03/2012 02:01

Are they going to target Iceland next? Cos I hear that's where mums go ...

I would really like a Mothers4Justine t-shirt, v-neck please as have big boobs. Any colour will do. And are we allowed the '4' or will it be 'for', this is MN afterall.

garlicbutter · 19/03/2012 02:35

"the Mumsnet web site carries abusive and distressing anti-male content which promotes gender hatred against men and boys. ... general sexist labelling of men and boys as 'rapists', 'paedophiles' and 'wife beaters' ..."

That's some serious allegation. They are accusing you of an actual crime. I'm surprised the i carried it - isn't there some basic advertising rule that says you can't slander a competitor? (I'm supposing F4J sees itself as a competitor to MN - while ROFLing at the conceit.)

I hope you've slapped a writ on 'em, Justine.

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