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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
swallowedAfly · 18/03/2012 09:02

oh - happy mother's day everyone Smile for those of us who are single mothers an extra big happy mother's day to us. i'm taking my poor fatherless child off to his first football training session today and then we're off to spend the afternoon with my parents and my sister and her children (also fatherless by f4j's definition though i'm sure their dad might be a bit offended by the idea).

how yuk to target mothers day!?! i think it is the perfect demonstration of what really drives this group - being anti women and mums. difficult to believe that their female members don't see that but hey ho, each must find their own path in the patriarchy and if yours is propping up entitled men's egos then go for your life.

hathorinareddress · 18/03/2012 09:03

Like a number of others have asked, I don't do FB could someone tell me who has left?

swallowedAfly · 18/03/2012 09:05

(possibly fair to call my child fatherless - though obviously he was fathered - but it's for the common reason that his father has chosen to have nothing to do with him. which is about a zillion times more common than a 'good dad' being forced out of a child's life by women and the court system)

hathorinareddress · 18/03/2012 09:06

And fwiw I'm a single mum who shares custody with her ex on a 60/40-ish basis even though he winds me up and pisses me off I never show it to the kids and I would never ever stop him seeing them - I have them today even though it's technically "his" weekend and we're changing weekend rotas to accommodate him and his family.

PattiMayor · 18/03/2012 09:16

smallwhitecat has gone :(

Nyac · 18/03/2012 09:23

No!!!!

She can't go, she's great.

I might launch a naked protest outside my local M&S to demand that smallwhitecat comes back.

I hope she's reading, please come back swc.

Southsearocks · 18/03/2012 09:32

I just don't get their campaign. Half the population is women and the vast majority of them are not "man haters". And the vast majority of men don't hate women. So this campaign is on behalf of a teeny-tiny number of people. Is Marks and Sparks actually bothered??

Is anyone??

Southsearocks · 18/03/2012 09:36

Ooh. I think what I meant was that most women and men won't agree with their views... Blush

runningforthebusinheels · 18/03/2012 09:37

Is that Louis de Bernieres I can see in that 'naked truth' pic? Wink Grin

Beachcomber · 18/03/2012 09:53

I too wish smallwhitecat would come back.

StewieGriffinsMom · 18/03/2012 09:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Onesunnymorningin2012 · 18/03/2012 10:15

Poor Smallwhitecat. She was singled out on their FB page, and one of the members hinted he knew who she was IRL. :(

SWC, I hope if you read this that you're okay. x

Nyac · 18/03/2012 10:16

Come back under a different name. It works fairly well.

TheBigJessie · 18/03/2012 10:21

I'm going shopping at M&S. I may be some time.

I'll donate to Gingerbread, too.

I wonder if F4J will protest against the NSPCC next, for separating children from (abusive) fathers.

Tanith · 18/03/2012 10:36

Just been told I'm bigger than Matt by DW Grin. I think that's good! Blush

AliceHurled · 18/03/2012 10:38

They're ahead of you bigjessie. The photo they are using for their current campaign was used previously against, amongst others, the nspcc

NormaStanleyFletcher · 18/03/2012 10:39

I have googled and can't find any coverage if their protest yesterday.

So that went well.

Tanith · 18/03/2012 10:48

Ahem! With reference to the post above from my account, that was DH, who thought he was posting from his own account. Grin

TheBigJessie · 18/03/2012 11:07

Alice do they not want public support then?!

That has to be as effective as telling a judge that you should have full custody of your children, because their absence is adversely affecting your mental health, and causing you to have violent thoughts about them!

TheBigJessie · 18/03/2012 11:14

Or, perhaps, "I am so unbalanced by my children's absence, that I want to abduct other men's children, to express my rage and envy."

Oh wait... some of them were planning that, weren't they? I refer of course, to Leo, Tony Blair's (then) little toddler.

Bossybritches22 · 18/03/2012 12:21

TheBig Jessie

Apparently they frothed a bit at that rumour, it was put about by Tony Blairs govt to discredit them......

Hmm like they weren't doing a good job of that all by themselves! Grin

swallowedAfly · 18/03/2012 12:26

oh was tony blair in on the feminist conspiracy too???? Shock i never saw him at any of the board meetings Confused

NormaStanleyFletcher · 18/03/2012 12:36

Grin @ SAF

elijah13 · 18/03/2012 13:20

From what f4j have said and done, they are not the most appropriate people to look after children. Which is why I guess they are in the situation they are in.

swallowedAfly · 18/03/2012 13:22

they would probably object to you saying that elijah but people thinking and saying that is a direct outcome of the way they present themselves. surely they see how they shoot themselves in the foot with this crap?