If Fathers for Justice invade again

[Nyac]

will they still be welcome?

I'm referring to the thread in the Feminism/Women's Rights section -

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a1419965-Agenda-much

where Justine said:

"an invasion - ie let's go on and tell those mumsnetters why they've got it all wrong - isn't necessarily the same as trolling tbh (ie deliberately misleading/antagonising). I think we ought to be able to be robust enough to be able to debate the issue, with the caveat, of course, that if visitors turn out merely to be here to wind up or hear to spread hatred then they are not welcome"

It appears that as long as they promote their agenda in PARD then no harm done. Is that a fair assessment?

Line says 'line' ................................................................

Lol I have copied and pasted this from an old thread that I answered didn't realise it was started in 2004!! woops :) As a wife, mother and step-mother, I can see where Fathers 4 Justice come from. My step-son is 7 years old. I met my husband when his son was 2. From the age of 3 - 6, we managed to see my step-son once and for 3 years we received a torrent of abuse from his mother, her bf and her family. We received threats, abusive texts and phone calls. We spent hundreds of pounds on solicitors fees - it took 6 months of letters (which we were paying for) and in the end a court order to get a response from her. When he got to court, they sided with her over everything. There was a paternity issue which arose when he discovered she had been cheating - which was the reason they broke up and my husband had asked her to resolve time and time again but she refused. She refused this in court and the court said it was a violation of her human rights to make her do the test. Eventually it was sorted out with court via the csa (whom we have paid over £10,000 in back payments over 3 years as we had no proof of money we HAD paid to her and she told them she hadn't received a penny and they took her word) we started to have regular contact with my step son from summer 2011 when he came to stay with us for 10 days, we went up to visit him, had him over new year. My husband said 1 thing that his ex wasn't happy with and she is now ignoring emails, calls and text messages. We are supposed to have him for 1 week at Easter but it doesn't seem likely. We are expecting our 3rd child in September and my step-son has always spoke about not seeing his siblings when they were babies so he was over the moon to hear he was going to see this one....not anymore unless the courts get their heads out their backsides. This woman was physically abusive to my husband who never lifted his hand to her (she has done this to 2 other bfs since, once whom she has a daughter with). My husband is getting increasingly frustrated with this as once again he is being shut out of his sons life just because the mother feels like it, just because she can and just because she knows at the end of the day, she has the winning card. She can stand up and say she has been left to bring her son up alone etc etc and when my husband puts it right as to why she has had to do it alone no-one listens. My husband has his flaws, I'm not saying he is perfect, he has spoken out of anger particularly when I was under attack from his ex but he is a wonderful father who his son adored as he got to know him again and now his son is the one who is most going to suffer again. I can understand the frustrations of men and women alike who are unable to get access to their children, step-children, grandchildren etc and the frustrations of walking out of court after being made to feel the size of a pea, named a run away dad who didn't give a shit just because that's how the mother has described you. Called a liar when you try to defend yourself because the woman sitting crying says that's what you are. Are Fathers 4 Justice tactics sometimes on the extreme end of the scale, of course, but for someone who has been on the other end, sometimes this is what it takes to make people listen. I don't believe they think abusive dads should have access but if a woman says a man is abusive everyone will believe it whether it is right or wrong and some woman - not all, not the majority - will use this.

But lets remember, anecdote does not equal data

_

why was SGB's comment removed? Wasn't she just saying that aligning yourself with the ideals of F4J as a father can actually work against you when persuing custody?

@YuleingFanjo

why was SGB's comment removed? Wasn't she just saying that aligning yourself with the ideals of F4J as a father can actually work against you when persuing custody?

Hello

Not quite, I'm afraid. Parts of SGB's post implied that a significant number of F4J members are dangers to their ex-spouses and children.

MNHQ

yes, I mean if they have gone through the court process the right way surely they would have been given access if they weren't a danger in some way?
Or does it really work that even with the court's/legal help fathers are being denied access unfairly?

I know that some people thing family courts are corrupt but the truth is surely that there's a lot more going oninside those courts than we know about and the reason those things are private is because of the nature of the reasons for denying access?

by which I mean I agree with AyeRobot. Lots of conspiracy theories around about the family courts.

but it might be hard for MNHQ to prove in a libel/defamation case, mightn't it? The issue isn't exactly whether or not it's true but whether it can easily be shown to be true.

WRT the whole libel/defamation issue how is it they can get away with saying that Mumsnet are man haters and promote gender hatred etc? That Mumsnet and M&S see boys as figures of hate? Surely that's libel?

I have been lurking over these threads since kickoff and whilst I appreciate the 'just ignore them and they'll go away' stance, I don't think it's working (at least if their FB page is anything to go by)

oh yes, the stuff they say about us is worse than the stuff we say about them. But if MNHQ were to take them to court over it, they would end up paying a lot of money to lawyers so even if they won in the end it would be a huge headache and probably counterproductive in that the stuff they say would get more publicity. So unless MNHQ felt it was doing significant harm to Mumsnet, they would probably prefer to ignore it. And as nobody much takes any notice of F4J it won't be doing Mumsnet an awful lot of damage. I mean, a bunch of sweary blokes call us manhaters on their Facebook page, and it pretty much only gets read by a few more sweary blokes and their wives and girlfriends - who cares, really? It's not like David Cameron is going to read it and say 'Oh yes, F4J, they're very wise and sensible, I shall cease all dealings with Mumsnet forthwith!'

That's how I think it works, anyway.

You are very wise Turnip

I just hate the injustice of it all :( but will now endeavour to ignore them all

Here's some Family court articles about a man called Mark Harris, I've read his book which makes interesting reading.

It's given me have an open-mind on the family courts.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1317498/Judge-brands-martyr-father-as-a-charlatan.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-464132/Jailed-waving-daughter.html

I'm sorry I don't think we are allowed to identify individuals on here.

Hmm - one article from the telegraph which states the judgement of the judge,

Another article which is from the daily fail based on an interview with the estranged dad, and the daughter who called him to spite her mum when she was a teenager.

hahaha

Letter from M&S to you know who

Dear Nadine

We have received your note and read all the accompanying background.

This is clearly a matter between Fathers 4 Justice and Mumsnet and we do not think it is appropriate for us to become involved or comment on the issues you are discussing.

For your information, we have no plans to change our promotional activity with Mumsnet. We are an apolitical, inclusive business and we openly welcome all customers to our stores.

Thanks for taking the time to contact us.

Kind regards

Simon Hoskins

Yay for M&S! I shall make a point of buying my mother her Mothers Day present there.

oh dear.

M&S won't know what's hit them when as many as 4 or 5 F4J members stage a massive protest outside one of their stores.

This is not justice.

This is M&N justice.

I am loving Justine's reply to their communications too. Nice one Justine :)