Reply to Justine

[TheOriginalFAB]

The first objection I'm afraid I can't really buy - Most of the UK population uses Facebook. Most Mumsnetters use facebook. It's a bit mad to object to facebook on principle - it's like objecting to people.

This is just daft and is irrelevant whether you buy it or not. Just because "most of ths population" use FB doesn't mean everyone on MN is going to like it. It is like saying you don't buy that some people won't eat meat as the majority of the population are not vegetarian/vegan. And it is nothing like objecting to people

The second objection I just think is misguided, as I've explained. Users' privacy is no more compromised by this button than it ever was.

It might not be "no more compromised" than before but the point is it is much more visable now and before people might not have been aware of the link button but now they are and they don't like it.

So should we change something because some people on this thread dislike it even if we think they are mistaken to dislike it? Even though what they are objecting to is already in place?

You may think we are mistaken not to like it but we are part of MN and without posters you just have a website with adverts no one sees. And the fact that it is already in place is not the issue. Before lots of posters weren't aware of it so couldn't object.

I've been doing this long enough to know that new things are never well-received - but it doesn't always mean they are bad.

That comes across as patronising and lots of posters are telling you this is a "bad" idea and lots of people don't like it.

For me this is a huge loss as I feel unable to discuss something I would have appreciated help with and that makes me feel sad. And namechanging doesn't work for me as someone always guesses who I am and outs me.

At this stage I'd like to point out that I'm really NOT a technophobe, anything but. I use FB every day and spend a sizeable proportion of my life on the internet both professionally and for leisure.

I have never moaned about a change on MN before, I am always totally 'meh' about changes to the user interface and can't see why people find changes so dreadful. But this IS different!

the way i see it, it's a button i've never used and never will, and so long as i can't press it by accident i'm not bothered.

I actually disagree with people posting MN threads on FB, as i just think it's not cricket, imo if you hate a thread say so on the thread, if you like it, say so on the thread. but that ship sailed a long time ago... people cut and pasted before there was such a thing as a like button.

Aitch that is just how I feel 'just not cricket' but as you say that ship has sailed.So I have defriended all my MN friends on FB and look a right bitch instead

Thanks Lily, this is great, I'm having a good look around Chrome and it does seem very easy to manage.

Lissie, I think that is right - I think had Mumsnet taken the queries seriously about the two-step process, and had they been a little more forthcoming about issues like taking the button off historic threads, allowing some input into what topics are "sensitive" (since they accept it shouldn't be there on sensitive topics), and maybe answered a few questions directly, then I for one wouldn't have been so upset about it all.

I do still feel pretty ignored .

The questions I wanted answered were simple.

1. Why can't it be customised hidden (like the viewport bar), or alternatively give op's the option to have it or not on their thread?
2. Can you guarantee that it is two-step, so that there is an opportunity to properly cancel if you hit it by accident?
3. Is there somewhere we can suggest topics from which it should be removed?
4. Can you remove it from posts started before last Thursday?

They are straightforward questions, surely (and I know they are reading this thread, of course they are, what is the objection to answering?). I just don't understand it, and to be honest, it has seriously damaged my previously 100% respect for Justine and Mumsnet and how it has been run.

Love the sound of Chrome's Disconnect tools and Keep My Opt Outs. This thread is helping me realise more fully what a commercial piranha pool the internet is, Mumsnet included, so I think I'll stock up on as much anti-commercial software as I can.

IANSPO - glad you have found a roundabout solution . Agree with the rest of your post too.

I have deleted most FB MNetters, asked for posts to be deleted in my old name and will change the way i MN from now on. Not great but hey ho.

Oh and i am laughing about the fact that in trying to gain more advertising revenue, the result is more people using an ad-blocker. Brilliant . But then MN and FB don't care about that, just the number of users and clicks....

I'm loving this Chrome business.

I just did a Cntrl F (you know, to find) and it told me how many times something appeared on the page.

Thanks very much to Lily (and to all the others with their various suggestions).

AIBU to start a thread saying "if you use Google Chrome you can avoid the ads, and the facebook button, and not send information to the KGB Facebook". I'm also interested to note how often information requests are blocked on Chrome, it is adding them up for me in the corner .

I'm now (almost) happy.

It would still be nice to have my questions at least acknowledged, though

I always thought it was totally frowned on to discuss mn threads off mn...
so I'm surprised it's condoned by the powers that be, but couldn't care less really.
your privacy is your responsibility, not mn's imo.

no reason to defriend MNers, though, is there? just create a group for them. or a circle in google+ terms. (as if anyone is using that, hahaha)

Yes, you don't need to defriend MNers - even if they post links they won't be visible to your FB friends unless you comment on them.

I think the discussion of MN threads on FB is kind of a side issue - the people who do it clearly don't mind MN threads showing up on their FB identity and that is their choice.

As long as it's people's active choice to blur the boundaries between MN and FB - and they understand all the implications - then I don't have a problem with it.

Gah! More that I don't understand: Why would we need to delete MN people from our FB account? I wouldn't mind the spillage onto FB if I only had MNers on FB: it is the presence on FB of real-life family and friends that makes it important to me not to have accidental spillage from MN.

No matter, I've zapped my FB account now.

And yes if you create or join a closed (ie by approval only) FB Group then everything is private within that group. You just have to be organised!

I have MNers on my FB and don't have a problem with that (for all those who think I'm Tin Foil Hatty ). And it's not even a closed Group!

The Like button issue has no bearing on whether I have MNers for FB friends or not.

I sincerely hope that MN have made a small fortune from this agreement with FB

because they've sacrificed a lot

god save us from the histrionic sold us all speech
what price mnhq integrity,blah blah

Unless I missed it, I reckon we're all safe from that, as tis only in your head

I don't think they have sacrificed anything Holly; the response from individual posters won't bother them. To be fair, the way they have reacted to this has been very effective: by ignoring all the threads about this they have successfully just waited for the uproar to die down. They might have lost a few posters, upset a few more, but they are increasing traffic to the site which presumably is their goal.

I don't know whether there is direct revenue involved, or just increased advertising appeal, depending on the increase in traffic.

Either way, it is not my business to stop them, or even to complain about it. I just wish they had been open from the start, given us a warning and answered my questions.

Why are you always so rude Scottishmummy? You are such a humourless old bawbag! The things you say and the way you post make me think you are a bitter dried up old Glaswegian granny with a simultaneous chip on her shoulder and an enormous superiority complex.

Surely they've successfully diverted traffic from MN towards facebook?

It is difficult to see why anyone would join MN on the basis of a contact's liking a thread, they are more likely to discuss it with the people they know, where they already are logged in. Even if they are MNers already. I know I've been guilty of this.

I wish they'd answered your questions
but I guess they just did not want to, and saw no reason why they should

right im not getting it (sorry, sorry)

I have fb closed on my pc, ie not an open window, clicked the link and it posted it, so it didn't ask me to log in, just posted it. Is that because of cookies?

And if I'm logged into fb on my iphone but not my laptop, and press the 'link' on my laptop will it still post? God i hate technology

BloodyWedding - yes, if you have previously logged into your FB account, and have not deleted your cookies since then, that is how the thread came to be posted to your FB. That is how the button is supposed to work - Facebook call it 'frictionless sharing', as you have to do very little for it to happen.

If you have deleted the cookies on your laptop, and log into FB on your phone, and MN on the laptop, when you click on the like, you should get a pop-up which asks for your FB account details.

Evening all.

It's my day off today but we didn't want another day to pass without some MNHQ presence on this thread, so here I am for a wee while.

As you may have noticed/realised, there aren't that many of us at MNHQ at the moment, so it's been hard to respond to your questions, objections and comments as quickly and as effectively as we normally do. And for that we do apologise.

We're sorry, too, that we managed the release of this Like button so poorly. As we've posted before, we didn't expect the uproar it generated (because the Like button/Share button has been there for ages in the Viewport bar already) but we should still have made sure there were more of us around to answer your questions, and we should have tested the button more thoroughly.

For those who may have missed our previous posts, we're beavering away right now on a coding workaround that makes clicking the Like button a proper, fail-safe two-step process (with a genuine chance to Cancel, if you clicked on the button by mistake). Tech tells us he's almost there with this, so we're hopeful that we can release it very soon (after some testing ).

Just a couple of extra points: Facebook haven't paid us any money to put this button on threads. Yes, we hope the button may drive some traffic Mumsnet's way - which, in turn, may bring in some more revenue to run our servers, pay our staff etc - but there was no 'deal' with Facebook to get the button put on top of threads (or in the Viewport bar).

And yes, just to clear up any confusion, the 'f' button right at the very top of every MN page (to the right of your PM inbox) is a button that, when you press it, takes you to our MN page on Facebook. It doesn't paste any links to your wall. But the 'f' button in the Viewport bar (and at the top of threads) does paste links to your own FB wall - and doesn't connect you to our MN page on Facebook.

As for the other questions people are saying we're not answering, we hope you'll take it on trust that we are working on some answers! As you probably all know, Justine is on her hols and only intermittently contactable. We'd like to think we're pretty good at second-guessing what her answer would be to most of the outstanding queries but we trust you'll understand that we don't think it's a good idea just to post a "guess" answer on the boards. We'd rather wait and post the real deal.

And yes, before you all say it, we should have figured it would be a dodgy idea to release this change just before Justine went on her hols. That was kinda the icing on the cock-up cake, wasn't it?

lily - thank you. I think but if I delete my cookies each time I'll have to type boring stuff to get into ebay/amazon etc??

Not sure about icing and cock in the same sentence though...