DBF banning thread, part 2.

[Rhinestone]

OCCUPY MUMSNET continues......

Justine, that was a little topical joke, please don't ban me!

@nooka

I image that AF was originally 'quite cross' because of Justines's really crass comments about the feminism section made in response to complaints about MNHQs very very slow response to some pretty nasty trolls there and how that didn't fit with the banning of DBF/Valhalla essentially on the grounds of making sure the the dogshouse is nicey nicey. I'm (obviously) not AF but I would be extremely pissed off if someone dismissed my perfectly righteous anger in such a snidey way.

Morning all. I apologise for being a bit flippant last night re AF's name - we do have a bit of history with leg-pulling about it and I hope she took it in that spirit. But it was late and no doubt I should have kept schtum - I should know by now never to make jokes in the middle of a serious discussion.

I do think we need a good discussion about the feminism section. We are not closed-eyed to MRA trolls - they actually take up a hugely disproportionate amount of our time and we have banned quite a few. But from a free speech perspective we are not going to ban anyone just for having a contrary opinion and in any case I think tactically it would be a mistake to do so - it would merely encourage further invasion.

I'm going to move this thread to site stuff (where it belongs ) so everyone can add their thoughts.

Just caught up on the epic first thread...

I'd like to add my support for DBF to be allowed back.

I never Posted in the doghouse because I had been lurking there and it felt hostile. I saw posters asking for help, to be told they should never have got a dog in the first place etc. to be told that, when you already have a dog, and now need help is no use. It makes a person in need shy away and not come back......I rarely post in AIBU because I know it's like a vortex for people's darker side....I think people say things in AIBU that would not cross their lips in real life, which is fine, I know that about this topic.

But most other MN sections show respect, compassion and help to posters, genuine ones I mean. The dog house became more of a place to berate owners or "educate" them on things they never knew existed, rather than a place to help.

This post is to the poster who asked why people don't want to post in the doghouse.....sorry it's early, I had a quick read of the thread and now I need to get the school run done

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 07-Nov-11 23:09:47
LindsayWagner

I don't fwiw think it's always possible to post with a worst-case-scenario view of another MN-ers circs; I think MN's true spirit bounces erratically between that extreme, and the other, 'you're talking shite and I'm telling you so' one.
I actually agree with that LW. I think you can and should be able to say 'you're talking shite and I'm telling you so' but you shouldn't say "'you're talking shite, you evil/nasty/uncaring/thoughtless/stupid (delete as appropriate) person you, and I'm telling you so'

Justine maybe that is exactly what is needed on the warning mails, egs and telling them how they could have said tha same thing without being in trouble. I really think sometimes people just don't realise the difference till it's pointed out to them.

Clearly if you need maverick doggy types to keep things in order, you need wolefs .
Except we're probably too naughty. And isn't it the Thin End of the Wedge, the extra moderating/monitors?

I think that there is certainly room for change in the tenor of the Doghouse. What I really don't like though is the number of people both on this thread who have come on to effectively say 'oooh DBF has been banned. What a good thing, I didn't like her' That's petty and mean. Disagree with the view, point out that she could hector with the best of them but don't gloat. This is not a happy situation.

Just to inject a note of caution btw - we've filled up one thread in just a few hours, Justine has abandoned her family to take up residence on the boards and Christmas is coming........anybody else got deja vu?

We don't need monitors we just need patronising abusive bullys to be banned.

So has a decision been made then????

I've just realised that in my half-asleep state I have already broken my vow not to post elsewhere until this is resolved . I will have to actually log out, I think, and just lurk here to see what happens.

Don't think we need to worry about Justine's family. She's looking out for them just fine.

I know these two threads have moved very quickly, but how have so many people missed that DBF wasn't banned just on the basis of this TLES business. It was after a whole host of other warnings that DBF/Val, being understandably passionate about her cause, was not able to stop herself from ignoring. This Doghouse "tone" issue has been rumbling on for a while now and maybe this was the last straw?

"And isn't it the Thin End of the Wedge, the extra moderating/monitors?"

Not really as we've had them before.

I very much like LemonDifficult's post of Tue 08-Nov-11 00:11:14.

I agree - DBF hasn't been banned for this single "incident" and this seems to be being misunderstood.

I'd be surprised if she even wants to come back after all this hoo-ha. But I hope she is given the option. It's not credible to ban somebody when they post something harsh but fair just because they have crossed the line in the past. It completely hamstrings any natural exchange.

it was not harsh but fair, imo. saying that someone IS a disgrace is a personal attack. valhalla's far from a stupid woman, she knew that when she posted it.

agree that LemonDifficult's posts have been excellent.

Have been musing about this.

Sometimes new posters complain about MN being bitchy, or aggressive and they are told that MN is rather robust and you will be told the truth when you ask AIBU. They are told that if they cannot cope with this, if they want fluffy hun posts telling them "you know your bubs, hon" they are in the wrong place. And that MN is perhaps not the website for them.

So in the same way, is it not clear that MNHQ will not tolerate aggressive posting, and that anyone who has been repeatedly warned about their behaviour will be banned?

If DBF is unable to adjust her posting style to conform to the rules of MN, then perhaps this is not the board for her.

That comment was a final straw though. Just because that final straw perhaps wasn't bad enough on its own to warrant a ban doesn't mean that the cumulative effect wasn't.

as LemonDifficult put it:
She was warned
She kept doing it
She was warned some more
She kept doing it some more
She ... got the consequences

I agree with LemonDifficult's post as well. It's not up to MNHQ to relax their quite lax guidelines; if someone wants to actually help whoever/whatever, she needs to work within those. I'm not quite sure people aren't annoyed with DBF for getting herself banned for doing, repeatedly and without apology, what she has been asked not to do. From the sounds of it, she was given many many chances.

But this (speaking of banning and self culling of popular but inappropriate posters) happens from time to time and the site not only survives but thrives because of it. All of you who agree with her views will pick up the slack and I seriously doubt the Doghouse will be a worse place for it. I, personally, find it batshit insane and any time I wander into a thread there, my tolerance for real life dogs and dog owners plummets for a while. (I need to watch what topics the threads I'm clicking on are!) You'll be able to get the same views across in a manner people will accept more readily - honey v vinegar and all that.

I really can't bear this any more. The personal attacks on the other thread were one thing but at least there was a MNHQ presence to deal with them dispassionately and deleting of the comments. Some of the things being said about DBF on here are just horrible.

You (and there's more than one so not personal) are being hypocrites if you think it's ok to slag DBF for how she behaved using some pretty unpleasant terms yourselves. She's not here to defend herself and it just makes you look nasty.

Regardless of whether MNHQ were right to ban DBF she does not deserve to be talked about in such a way.

i think the doghouse needed a kick in the arse tbh.