Let's talk about sex toys (well, ads for them on Mumsnet), please

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

We'd like your opinions, please, on Mumsnet taking ads for stores/sites that sell sex toys.

We accepted a campaign for one site like this earlier in the week - and then removed it after receiving a fair number of complaints.

So, what we need to know now is...

Do you mind ads for stores/sites that sell sex toys - generally speaking?

Does it matter which stores/sites these are? And what kind of stuff they're selling?

And, if you wouldn't run a mile from these kinds of ads, would you be happy to see them all over Mumsnet (with the obvious exception of our more sensitive topics such as Bereavement, Special Needs, Relationships, Miscarriage etc)? Or would you prefer them only to be in Chat?

Do please post and let us know your thoughts.

Thanks MNHQ

I haven';t read the entire thread. But just turn it round.

WHY do you think these people want to advertise on MN?

Because they want WOMEN, and most of all, mothers, to buy their stuff. It's covert pressure, it's 'normalising' the sort of disgusting things they sell, trying to make it seem like we're supposed to buy it, everyone else does, that sort of thing.

I despise any company that sells sex 'toys' (please don't call them this - it's again a subtle marketing plot to make them seem harmless and 'fun' when in reality they are anything but)

It's sick. I don't know where to start, if MNHQ is even asking this question.

Sorry, I've just read Uppity's post and found we're saying the same thing about normalising it.

There you go then. It's not just me that can see through it.

Just wanted to add a NO vote.

the thing is mnhq didn't ask - they took the revenue, chose to put the ads specifically on the relationships board and then seemed surprised that people were offended. that's hard to understand given the consultation i'm told occurred about McDs.

the ads were about how your sex life needs to be worth living - basically saying that a sex life worth anything includes the use of products like their own. it was also imo implying that not wanting to do these things meant you were providing a shit sex life to your dh/dp and that if your sex life was not going well the onus was on you to make it better by buying into a pornified version of sex. and it was at the top of relationships where women post about problems with their sex lives, guilt about not feeling like sex after giving birth, pressure from partners to have sex they weren't feeling ready for, discovering their partners were watching a lot of porn and were bringing it into the bedroom in ways that made that uncomfortable etc etc. such poor taste and disrespect for the women there.

the asking for opinions is after the fact which surprises me - it surprises me that mnhq did not have the sense and foresight to see the inappropriateness of doing this.

now the questioning seems to be well if you don't want that company which one shall we have? why so keen to have any? why so keen to sell this stuff? why does it seem like an appropriate product given it would upset and offend some people and that it is acknowledged than mn'ers come on here with their children around and don't want them to see this stuff?

i'm really at a loss as to why they would so desperately want to advertise this stuff? it's a parenting site. yes we talk about all sorts of stuff and some of it is very 18+ but that is easy to avoid for those who would be offended by it and it isn't an endorsement of anything because it's just individual people talking which is utterly different.

recently a member got their daughter to post for advise on here about an ethical dilemma. another made a thread asking for advice for her teenage son about sexual consent that he then read. the rest of us will no doubt have had our kids looking over our shoulder or looking at the screen when we leave the room because given we're not on a sex site we don't feel the need to close down the computer to go for a wee or make a cup of tea.

why would a parenting site want to advertise porn styled products? i'm really lost.

All I can think is that MN wants to overhaul the cozy, mynah image that perhaps potential advertisers see the site as personifying, and open up a whole new revenue stream. As SAF said, no one's saying, sorry, we mis-judged that one - instead it's, which one shall we have?

This hS been quite an eye-opener for me, actually. I don't know why I should be so naive as to assume MN's ethics would be better than this - I'm a cynic by nature - but I did, and feel so disappointed and stupid.

Mynah?? mumsy

Actually I don't think Sh! bondage products are the same at all. Consenting hetero and lesbian couples (and I would imagine, solo women) enjoy bondage. The company has a strong feminist ethos. As Bela says, unaccompanied men can't even enter the shop. I think it's empowering.

I totally agree about other sites, though. Fanny in a can, yuck.

Agree with Sarah1002 on all counts. Please don't do it, MN.

Excellent posts Uppity and Sarah1002

I don't mind adverts for LH or any other stores, as long as they're not crazy graphic (I know lots of people log onto MN from work, and it's a bit hard to hide you're not working when a rampant rabbit thrusts across the screen!).

Don't care what the sites are selling (as long as it's legal), as people have different kinks & they have to get their stuff from somewhere; if some of the people so anti sex sites were to pop over to the forums on LH, they'd find the majority of posters are literate, friendly woman (loads of parents!) not sex-starved perverts who chain up women dressed as sexy school girls against their will.

Judging by the tone on the page (haven't read through the thread) it would seem I'm in a minority, and maybe it will have to be an optional opt in (like how mobile phone companies ask permission to show you 18+ ads for gambling & sex sites)?

I don't mind where the adverts are, but I think keeping them in chat would be safer (posters are less likely to post something sensitive there).

I dont really get why you would consider this. How would it sit alongside the other companies that advertise with you (Boden, GLTC etc) Do you think they would be impressed?
You must surely think about the image of the site (as the advertising graphics are usually the most thought out and most obvious on the page)... I worry about the people in charge of your corporate imaging if they are even opening this for debate.... do you not know your demographic? You'd maybe not loose that many from the regular users, but when people are clicking on a site for the first time.... usually pregnant or trying to conceive, do you think they would be drawn to a site with these adds?
Also many women come here for support in difficult relationships with an abusive power imbalance, these sites are maybe fine for the woman who chooses to look for them, but I think its stupid to assume that if you keep them away from the 'sensitive' pages then thats OK, do you think a woman who uses the MC forums doesnt also go to the 'chat' forum and so on.....? Its very basic to pigeon hole your membership into their forums in this way.... and a bit of an excuse for going ahead while trying to save some face. Not good.
People come to this site for comfort and reassurance and advice. The idea of running these adds just does not fit with anything else you supposedly stand for morally. I dont understand why you are considering it.... Your Ad people are doing a crap job if a site as big as this has to consider something so out of kilter with the ethos and morals it advertises. Bit disappointed with you on this one......

Oh, incase I wasnt clear, I wouldnt use the site again if these adds appear... silly silly silly MNHQ.

Please say sorry for DAFT idea and swiftly move away.......

'I don't mind where the adverts are, but I think keeping them in chat would be safer (posters are less likely to post something sensitive there).'

Not true. People often post ultra sensitive threads there specifically so that they will be deleted after a few months.

Thanks to those who said they agreed with what I said btw. I agree with those making the point that it's become a question of 'which one can we allow to advertise here?' rather than 'we are sorry, this is not the sort of thing we want to advertise as we know it offends and we will not be doing so in future'.

I meant it when I said I would leave...having been here since 2007 and having had my first long break over the summer, maybe two months or so I didn't even read...it would be easy to leave altogether. I wouldn't miss it if this was the new ethos. You can keep it.

Very good posts, SaF and Greengoose.

Do you mind ads for stores/sites that sell sex toys - generally speaking? YES. They are crass. I personally don't really like any advertising but accept you need to make money to keep going. But, honestly, on a parenting forum for people to come on and seek parenting advice and support with parenting or becoming parents? Is it really appropriate? Just because there is a bumsex thread does not mean the whole of MN wants to see toys advertised everywhere. Jeez, it would be like entering a internet sex chat room or something.

Does it matter which stores/sites these are? And what kind of stuff they're selling? Yes, as above.

And, if you wouldn't run a mile from these kinds of ads, would you be happy to see them all over Mumsnet (with the obvious exception of our more sensitive topics such as Bereavement, Special Needs...NO. If they had to be anywhere, then chat would be the best place. And you would see me less there. As I said previously, Ads annoy me when really in my face and I have to sometimes take a deep breath and move on as it is with some ads.

No don't do it, for all the reasons above, stated much more eloquently than I could put it.

It's a bit tacky isn't it.

the more i think about it, the more i read on here. the less impressed I am with MNHQ for having already done this without consultation of its readers. Once upon a time, MNHQ would have sought opinions before doing it.

I guess it was going to happen anyway. I did notice how quickly my hand was bitten off at the opportunity to advertise a new restuarant belonging to a famous person, in conjunction with that person's marketing company. Money Talks.

apparently so

Tipping the balance from a consumer LED website into an advertiser led, marketing led, money led website should be avoided at all costs.

I vote no. Haven't read the whole thread but I agree with most of the "no" opinions on this page. My son is only 3 but I take it for granted that I'll carry on visiting MN as he grows up. I wouldn't want him to look over my shoulder at a tender age to get education in se toys. So please, MNHQ, no.

Pavlov - I agree. I think MN has become so big that it isn't about the posters any more, it's about revenue. Even if a load of people leave, it won't affect the revenue streams because there is enough critical mass.

I've been here for years. When I found my h had been using prostitutes last year I spent more time here, for advice support, where i didnt feel like a prude, or shitty about myself, and for a laugh and escapism.
It aws because mn felt like a safe space, unlike tv, movies and most of the Internet, where I felt for the first time like I was really seeing how completely normalised it was to objectify and sexualise women, and at that time I couldn't bear it, and I wanted to spend time somewhere where women felt like people first and foremost.
I'm ok now, I'm strong again, I can watch telly! But I would truly have felt shitty about seeing love honey type ads here, like it was another reminder of what as a woman i should really be like, same as we get told everywhere else.
Mn is such an island of normal(ish!) in a world that feels bloody mad.
Has it suddenly become so moch more £££ to run it for some reason that MNHQ need the cash?
And jeez, can you imagine the daily fail take on it, and the subsequent influx of horrors.
Let's not, please?

Agree totally with Uppity. And others. But Uppity gets the crux of what it feels like to be merrily plodding around on relationships, after having found a place where you can find support from other women, and then have this advert bang in your face.

People discussing such stuff, totally different ballgame. Discussing, fine.

Endorsed by the site with no discussion, totally wrong.

And yes I too was stunned to see it happen with no consultation, considering there was for MacDonalds. And on the relationships board of all places. Really changed by perception of MN. I always used to admire that it was a success for the women who set it up but they didn't sell out their values.

I would also consider it a massive sell out.

"Actually I don't think Sh! bondage products are the same at all. Consenting hetero and lesbian couples (and I would imagine, solo women) enjoy bondage. The company has a strong feminist ethos. As Bela says, unaccompanied men can't even enter the shop. I think it's empowering."

But that is silly. Bondage is bondage whether the company is run by women or not. Unless the site has some wonderful gender identification policy, a man can buy, say, a leg spreader from there just as easily as he can from Love Honey. They can mention "your consensual submissive" as many times as they like but it doesn't make it true in all cases does it? They have no idea who uses their products and, most likely, don't care very much or they wouldn't have an online shop where they can't "vet" their customers.

Either these items are unacceptable or they are not.