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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MNHQ

Let's talk about sex toys (well, ads for them on Mumsnet), please

486 replies

HelenMumsnet · 07/10/2011 11:51

Hello.

We'd like your opinions, please, on Mumsnet taking ads for stores/sites that sell sex toys.

We accepted a campaign for one site like this earlier in the week - and then removed it after receiving a fair number of complaints.

So, what we need to know now is...

Do you mind ads for stores/sites that sell sex toys - generally speaking?

Does it matter which stores/sites these are? And what kind of stuff they're selling?

And, if you wouldn't run a mile from these kinds of ads, would you be happy to see them all over Mumsnet (with the obvious exception of our more sensitive topics such as Bereavement, Special Needs, Relationships, Miscarriage etc)? Or would you prefer them only to be in Chat?

Do please post and let us know your thoughts.

Thanks MNHQ

OP posts:
higgle · 08/10/2011 10:15

This thread is about advertising on this site. Why are some posters using it as a moralistic diatribe against those who enjoy participating in bondage and submissive play and have a few plastic gadjets stashed away in their knicker drawer for times when they fancy that sort of stimulation?

sarah1002 · 08/10/2011 10:16

I don't know why you are perceiving that Higgle.

Any reference to the use of these things has been in the context of them being advertised on the site.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 08/10/2011 10:22

A no vote from me, for many reasons that have been articulated here far more eloquently than I can do from My phone.

higgle · 08/10/2011 10:27

"I despise any company that sells sex 'toys' (please don't call them this - it's again a subtle marketing plot to make them seem harmless and 'fun' when in reality they are anything but)"

Ahem!

startail · 08/10/2011 10:27

Just no, DD1 sometimes reads funny chat threads, she's 13 she'll know about such things soon enough I'm sure, but I don't think MN is the right place. I think we should be, well a little bit Mumsy. This is not Cosmo.

BecauseImWorthIt · 08/10/2011 10:40

I do not want to be mumsy, thank you very much!

But nor do I want to see ads for sex sites on here.

I don't care what people get up to in the privacy of their own bedrooms, and if stuff like that floats their boat - fair enough.

But I do really despise what these companies are selling (sorry higgle, but I think we are allowed to express our views), particularly porn. And there is a very, very fine line (IMVHO) between selling sex aids and moving into porn - no matter how 'tasteful' (bleurgh) it might be.

So a very, very definite NO from me, having given this some thought over the last day or so.

sarah1002 · 08/10/2011 10:43

You what, Higgle?

That's not a moralistic diatribe against people who enjoy using sex 'toys'.

It's a statement deploring the companies who promote these items as toys and want to sell them to us.

I don't like these items. I don't like them being promoted as toys when they are a pleasure giving device of an intimate nature. Toys are what children use in play.

Sex is not a game and often the use of these things is not harmless. iN fact the promotion of them could be described as harmful to all women.

Pavlovthecat · 08/10/2011 10:44

i guess the reason for no consultation on this, after McD consultation, is that MNHQ just no longer give a flying fuck? or, rather they care enough to make sure that the significant amount of money they make does not scare off too many readers/posters.

We assumed that MN was set up for good reasons, with good strong morale bases. But, maybe, in fact this was always set up as a media platform, to get women of similar demographic together. BAMM what a fab way to sell products. This may well have been cultivated over the years, lure us all in, gain our trust...

And sex sells as much as a Mark Warner holiday.

AyeBelieveInTheHumanityOfMen · 08/10/2011 10:47

"HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 07-Oct-11 12:33:02

caramelwaffle - The adverts certainly shouldn't be placed in the more sensitive forum areas of this site.

No, if we took them, they absolutely wouldn't be, caramelwaffle - that's a given."

It's not a given. The ad first appeared in Relationships and only in that section (by MNHQ admission), so stop telling porkies. Don't think it wasn't noticed.

Collaborate · 08/10/2011 10:48

When deciding on a policy re sex toys, consider also the often appalling language used gratuitously by many posters - often being substitutes words for the vagina. Hard really to object to advertising sex toys yet allowing people to use f..k, t..t, c..t, etc etc. If the moral high ground is going to be taken (and really I have no view on that one way or the other) it needs to be consistently applied.

sarah1002 · 08/10/2011 10:51

I think it's different. Posters using these words are individuals. They are not being paid to promote disrespect towards women's genitals.

sarah1002 · 08/10/2011 10:51

Sorry, they are not paying to promote...

BecauseImWorthIt · 08/10/2011 10:52

That was initially my view, Collaborate - that it would be hypocritical to refuse to take advertising for a sex site whilst we happily discuss the delights of bum sex of a Friday.

But, actually, what we don't do here is porn. And sites like LH are perpetuators of porn.

Pavlovthecat · 08/10/2011 10:57

But the thing is, as sarah said, we are posters are individuals. If I wish to use the word C*t in a thread, it is up to the adults to challenge or not challenge. MN has always been self governing without the need for moderators, and I like that. MNHQ has boundaries in place, but that is it, not hard and fast rules other than the obvious. But, saying that, it would not be OK for MNHQ to say, well some people use it so lets put up an advert with the word "C*t in it, to promote the use of it. MN can set the tone, the morals and ideation that it wants to portray as a whole. And individuals within it can govern themselves.

If people want to have a debate about sex toys, that is ok, why not, but that does not mean that MNHQ has to promote it.

MNHQ
HelenMumsnet · 08/10/2011 11:10

@AyeBelieveInTheHumanityOfMen

"HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 07-Oct-11 12:33:02 
caramelwaffle - The adverts certainly shouldn't be placed in the more sensitive forum areas of this site.

No, if we took them, they absolutely wouldn't be, caramelwaffle - that's a given."

It's not a given. The ad first appeared in Relationships and only in that section (by MNHQ admission), so stop telling porkies. Don't think it wasn't noticed.

Morning. Just popping by to clarify this one. Yes, the first ad did appear in Relationships and we took it down as soon as we realised what had happened. There are now no ads of this sort running anywhere on Mumsnet.

This thread was started after the ad was taken down to gauge people's reactions to the idea of us taking these ads - or any other ads for sites or shops that sell sex toys ? in the future. If we did - and obviously that's a big 'if' - we said at the outset (in our OP) that we wouldn't run them in sensitive topics such as Bereavement, Special Needs, Relationships, Miscarriage etc. Our reply to caramelwaffle was simply confirming that.

So no porkies. But apols if folks were confused. Smile

OP posts:
LetTheSlaughterBeGincognito · 08/10/2011 11:15

Hi Soup, I think they do care, actually, but as you say, customer gender is impossible to police online.

I guess my point of view is that bondage between consenting adults is fine. I see Sh! as pro, not anti-feminist - reclaiming a pro-sex space for women. I'd like to emphasise again that I do not think the same about LH. I think this is a coherent feminist viewpoint.

I would be happy to see ads from them, but would be equally happy not to if most posters would rather they weren't shown.

AyeBelieveInTheHumanityOfMen · 08/10/2011 11:19

Huh? "If" you run the ad? But you did run the ad. In Relationships. And only in that section.

Why did you canvass about McDonalds ads before running their ads but didn't for these ones?

windsorTides · 08/10/2011 11:19

But Helen you're referring to the placement of these ads in Relationships as though they just mysteriously appeared. Obviously a Mumsnet employee made an active decision to do it and thought that management would approve it.

Well maybe that's not surprising given that Justine herself seems to be conflicted about her sexual politics, given that she posted on the other thread that she could see nothing wrong with nurse outfits, or that they reinforced a sexist image of a health professional.

cloudsandwind · 08/10/2011 11:21

There isn't anything feminist about the commercialisation of sex, which includes the sale sex aids, sex outfits and BDSM gear. It's terrible the way the sex industry has hijacked feminist theory to promote its own products.

You don't actually have to buy anything to have good sex. I always imagine that the people who need t spend money on it are probably having shit sex lives or are involved in something extremely dodgy e.g. rope bondage.

AlysWorld · 08/10/2011 11:23

It is totally different. I have no problem with people discussing anything sexually, including things I think are exploitative and abusive. Because it is a discussion. People can challenge, discuss, clarify etc etc. But advertising is not that. It is unchallengeable endorsement.

higgle · 08/10/2011 11:26

"I don't like these items. I don't like them being promoted as toys when they are a pleasure giving device of an intimate nature. Toys are what children use in play.

Sex is not a game and often the use of these things is not harmless. iN fact the promotion of them could be described as harmful to all women."

But toys is what most people, including women chose to call them, sex should be fun, sex should be a game ( in the right context) Who are you to define what words we should use or to impose a puritanical view of sex on this site? Wasn't manipulation of the language one of the instruments of social control in 1984?

A point that is very properly made on Mumsnet is that the users are not one totality. There are people on here posting that it is gross to spend lots of money on clothes on one thread, and on another cogitating over which handbag over £1k is the nicest. We must never assume that just because we are members we speak for anyone else. Of course we all become more vociferous over something we really don't like ( for me amateur puppy breeding) than things that we do. I'm really shocked that there has been so much "anti" activiety against an advertiser whose goods are often mentioned and ercommended on individual threads, and who seem to provide a good range of reasonably priced toys that people should feel any more ashamed of looking at than anything else. Goodness, years ago you were not even allowed to advertise sanitary products on TV. I don't think my views are unusual, illogical or immoral, and in thei interests of balance and commonsense I'm putting them forward.

BecauseImWorthIt · 08/10/2011 11:34

How is it that your views are 'common sense' and people's who oppose you are not?!

And the issue that most of seem to be anti is the link with porn, rather more than the 'toys' themselves.

cloudsandwind · 08/10/2011 11:34

Toys is actually what the manufacturers and advertisers "chose" to call sex aids, and it has slipped into mainstream usage. There is a huge marketing effort going on to normalise these things and even to try and make people believe that they actually need them. There's a post over in the Feminism section about a piece of market research on that exact subject.

It's not puritanical to object to sex aids and BDSM gear. What sort of a fucked up view of sexuality does someone have to have anyway to think that these things are what constitute "good" sex?

Mind you I was reading a review on LoveHoney of someone who'd purchased a Fleshlight of the non-arsehole variety, who'd been wanking for two hours and couldn't orgasm because it had numbed his penis so much. The people on the forum kindly advised him to put it down.

CristinadellaPizza · 08/10/2011 11:45

Helen - have to agree with Aye and windsor - someone made the decision to accept this ad in Relationships only.

So are you saying you have no control over (what is effectively) an editorial decision? Someone made the decision to take the ad from LH and part of selling the space would have been about the placement.

If MN management are trying to say that they aren't aware of what ads their sales execs are taking or where they are offering space for sale, then you need to review your procedures IMO. It's not good enough to say 'Oh sorry, we didn't realise'.

higgle · 08/10/2011 11:49

I don't think that anyone would say that they in themselves constitute good sex, they can, at certain times and in certain ways enhance sexual experience or provide variety for people who are alone. Except in the world of financial services ( and that is where the plastic is evil) no one is saying we should depend on it.

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