I spent Monday morning at a BDSM dungeon. AMA

[DukeOfBurgundy]

Anything about BDSM-y stuff, really.

I'd probably describe myself as a sub. Although I'm mostly a masochist. I just like being spanked with stuff really hard.

The "dungeon" was exclusive use for me and my boyfriend from 10-2. Had a lovely time. It's the second time we've been there.

I've done BDSM "clubs" a few times. But I don't get anything from exhibitionism/voyeurism. Just enjoyed the spanking benches etc. Much prefer having the equipment all for our own use.

Ask me anything.

I think I made it very very clear I was talking about the extreme stuff. What the op posted, being hit by heavy implements really hard, as in whole body weight behind it, for hours on end.

I think I made it very very clear I was talking about the extreme stuff. What the op posted, being hit by heavy implements really hard, as in whole body weight behind it, for hours on end.

Just a few posts back a PP said their DP enjoyed pleasing them by whacking them with a belt - you said this was incredibly disturbing

So you seem to be disturbed by the lighter D/s stuff as well as the extreme, violent activities that the OP describes?

It was the phrasing, made it sound hard, I could be wrong and it was simply a light fun thing, I doubt it though.

I really don't need to justify myself to you. I've been very clear I get the light kinky stuff, it's when it moves to extremes I struggle with it.

Being hit with a belt is pretty tame to me! I guess it depends on your personal perception of what heavy is.

I think ultimately you aren't going to 'get' it bluntness. And as much as you try to maintain that we are somehow disillusioned it is safe to say you won't stop people - women - doing what they enjoy within the confines of a mutual relationship

No and that's fair, and I'm genuinely not trying to stop it, that would be a bit daft, and I fully accept that this stuff happens, and yes i accept I won't ever "get it". And when it comes to the extreme stuff, i genuinely don't think I'm in the minority there, and I do believe being concerned for those being hurt is the right going in position.

For me if a woman posts she was beaten, either at her will, or against, I'm always going to express concern for her welfare and for those where it's at her will, try to understand if she is mentally well enough to make that decision, as well as ask if she fully understands the type of man she is with. I don't think it's a given the answer to either of those is always yes.

I get that my asking makes some folks deeply uncomfortable, although it seems not those involved, you have all been very patient, and I get the thread would have been a lot more titallating if it stuck to the kinky stuff and didn't dig into the murky depths underneath, but it has been an interesting and thought provoking discussion for some of us.

@MiniTheMinx

I'm not going to quote your post verbatim but you just don't get it, do you? A BDSM relationship - like every vanilla relationship - is unique to the two (normally!) individuals involved. A good Dom/me will not abuse their sub because A/the submissive is their cherished possession and they have no wish to her/him damage over and above agreed limits B/a sane submissive would end the relationship immediately if their limits were ignored and C/there have been enough high profile assault cases to make a sane Dom/me realise that they will end up in court if they go too far.

Seeing as you have at least a passing interest in the subject but seem to believe the tired cliches I suggest you read Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns and SM101 - both given a great insight into the world of BDSM.

A/the submissive is their cherished possession and they have no wish to her/him damage over and above agreed limits B/a sane submissive would end the relationship immediately if their limits were ignored and C/there have been enough high profile assault cases to make a sane Dom/me realise that they will end up in court if they go too far

What??

So this reads.

A/ they wish to damage the submissive person to an agreed limit.
B + C / the only reason they don't is because the submissive person may end the relationship and they may end up in court.

Apparently plenty others have ended up in court. So lessen learned.

Is that really what you intended to post? And that you see the submissive person as a "possession" rather than a person you are in a relationship with? They are just something you own?

True D/s is not really 'light'. You can do it to whatever level suits you, but when you are in true submission, it is incredibly deep and profound. I remember the first time my Dom told me I was going to be punished if I didn't come on command. I was horrified and said that I couldn't possibly come just from being told to. He said that as a sub, I needed to be able to put everything aside and do as he said - even climax on command. And I did. My connection was that deep.

'Forced' orgasm is a common thing, but he and I both agree it can't really be truly forced. The inclination has to be there. And when he orders it, and I know that's what he wants, I can do it.

I see we're still going round the 'but he likes hitting you' thing. Well yes, he does. And I rather liked spanking my subs when I had them (I'm much more sub though). As I keep saying, it's a gross oversimplification to say I just liked hitting them. I wasn't slapping them around like a crazy person, I wasn't traumatising them. I was sexually stimulating them and yes, I was enjoying asserting my control and power. Some people need more pain than others to get the same high, some have been doing it a long time and develop a tolerance.

I appreciate that some people just don't get it, but can you please accept that some people are just not wired the way you are?

And can you also accept that in a BDSM session, you enter a different mood and mental state, so that you can in fact take and want more pain than you would in, say, the middle of a Board meeting?

And that you see the submissive person as a "possession" rather than a person you are in a relationship with? They are just something you own

Within the confines of the relationship, and in the sexual sense, yes. In the sense that they have permission to look at any part of your body they like, and to do whatever they choose to you, within your limits. (This is how they bring you to greater sexual highs and wider experiences - they have control and they guide/push you. Safeword is always there is you need it.) So you might fancy a floaty feminine dress day, but if they decide it's a latex day, that's what you do. But you consent to all of this, because you are a submissive and it fulfils you to do what they want.

And, as I can't stress enough, it is CONSENSUAL. They 'own' you for as long as you allow them to, and not one second more. And if they're true dom/mes, they will take care of their 'possessions' because you are valuable to them and they care.

If you had a £10000 grand piano in your house, would you trash it? Or would you play it with care and keep it maintained?

Something else that I think is worth stressing for those who struggle with it: domination and sadism are two different things. There's a lot of crossover, of course, but it is entirely possible to have a full scene with no pain at all, or a scene that's all about the pain but not domination (this seems to be how OP describes herself). And occasionally, you get Dom/mes and subs who are not into pain. Not many, but I have met a few.

I don't believe this is an altruistic act but I understand why folks wouldn't want to think someone is hurting them to get pleasure. I get why it's hard to accept. Although it's glaringly obvious that's the truth of it. I'm sorry.

I am 100% comfortable with the fact that my Dom hurts me to get pleasure, because it's what I want too, and I know he wouldn't get pleasure if I didn't. But again, you're focusing on it as 'pain' and I'm focusing on it as sexual stimulation. (As for altruism, there are actually some people who spank for the sub's pleasure and not theirs, but in any case, most people hope to get pleasure out of sex.)

I've just looked up an early email exchange we had about it, in case you're interested in how he thinks of it:

'It felt so right to strike you, sexually, with my hand and the cane. It wasn't a violent act in my mind, but a stimulation, and when I saw your response to it I was blown away. I remember your cry of pain, but also of fulfilment, and how you tried to kiss the cane afterwards. And I remember the look on your face when the endorphins started. I've never seen you look so at peace.'

Bluntness i didn't mean that to sound so catty btw (i reread it & cringed) but appreciate you taking it as i meant.

There was a post on here a few months back from a young girl whose partner had been physically abusive. It was interesting the number of people who didn't understand bdsm who told her that because they engaged with elements of bdsm it was her fault, because she must have given him mixed signals. The ones who openly admitted to enjoying bdsm straight away told her it fell outside those realms & was abuse. We understand the profound difference.

With regards to being a possession i am open about the fact i 'belong' to dp once we enter the bedroom. I willingly wear a collar & once that collar is on the mindset changes; i am his in whatever capacity he chooses. But as said above, i am very much a coveted 'possession' & if i'm unhappy or hurt in any way then i am instantly mollycoddled. It's hard to explain.

Looking at the altruistic thing, we sometimes have sessions that are all about me. So i get to choose my toys, the setting, the 'scene' as it were. I can choose whether to include the belt or exclude it. DP does that because my pleasure makes him happy just as much as the physical side of him getting off does.

DP has told me that if I ever decide bdsm isn't for me anymore, then we stop. No questions, no pressure. Once I was heavily pregnant it DID stop, completely. Again i can only speak for us, but to me that says i am the important part, not what he can or cannot do to me

envious of those in D/s long tern relationships.

I investigated a bit in the olden days of Informed Consent but got a little freaked about meeting up with people after a while. More recently went to some munches and it seemed most of them were poly and an exclusive ltr was unusual. Ive ended up in a really sexually unsatisfying relarionship ... but hes lovely in other ways.

I much prefer the d/s thing in a ltr. I met dp as a bit of fun playing the d/s role, & it developed from there. I definitely relish knowing i'm the only one he plays with!!

No Sarah I do not believe the tired cliches and I don't believe in a lot of the bollocks spouted about BDSM from within its own community. I have read, I have listened and I stand by what I have said already, even if you have failed to fully comprehend what I have said. Because what I have argued against is the standard narrative, the cliches and against this idea that true submission exists within this concept of "the sub has all the power" that's a play on words, an oxymoron, because to experience true submission one would have given up power. I would though also acknowledge that a commited full time relationship with this dynamic is fundamentally different to having playdates.

because to experience true submission one would have given up power.

You consent to give up power, and you can take it back. It's called power exchange. Submission means to give up that power. Forced submission is not true submission precisely because it's forced.

And if it doesn't work for you that is absolutely fine, and if you say you had negative experiences then I believe you. But your experiences are not ours, and they are not the only experiences, and you do not speak for us.

Scenes are guided by the sub. The Dom/me will be interacting with how they are responding. I'll often act resistant if I want something rougher, and I'll be sweet as pie if I'm feeling romantic.

Really well put AynR. As a sub i can choose how to interact when dp tells me to do something...depending on what response i want i will comply immediately, or i will resist & be a 'brat'. Because i know the reaction - ie a punishment for not doing as i'm told - and i want that to happen. I allow dp to push me physically & mentally beyond what i ordinarily expect to be capable of, because he can read my responses. But ultimately if i genuinely want to stop, genuinely don't feel comfortable with it, then it stops. It's that simple

@AynRandTheObjectivist - I salute you! You have the patience, objectivity and clarity that I lack in trying to explain BDSM to those who don't understand, don't want to understand and find the lifestyle so alien that they think we're damaged individuals who need to be saved from ourselves.

Your Dom is a lucky man :D

Ah, thank you guys. Truth is, I am lucky to have such a patient Dom who guided me through all this over a very long time (he enjoyed the process). I have actually had only two real Doms in my life; as I think I said before, I really don't get this connection with many people.

I actually repressed my submissive tendencies for a long time. I did have an abusive father and I thought it must be a fucked up response to that. I've since realised though that I've had submissive thoughts since preschool, and having been guided through the experiences so well, have understood that the two are absolutely not related. I do have a few very hard limits as a result of my abuse, but my submissiveness has nothing to do with it. I can honestly say my submissive experiences have made me much mentally healthier.

I can also honestly say that we can absolutely be submissive with our chosen partners, while still fighting feminist issues such as the pay gap and the appalling way in which rape victims are treats.

I KNEW my abusive father would get thrown back at me. I was sorely tempted not to mention it for that reason, but I'm trying to be honest and open about this.

My D/s sessions do not even BEGIN to touch upon my abuse. My Dom has never run at me screaming that he's going to fucking kill me, never punched me in the face, never called me a rotten little pig. He's never slapped me like a madman until I was hunched in a corner sobbing, and then shouted at me that it's all my fault.

The pain he has inflicted has always been controlled and calm, and the result has always been that I feel devoted to him, filled with love and fulfilment and a subspace high.

I have no respect for my father over what he did to me, but I have a huge respect and devotion to my Dom. It's like the difference between a choreographed fencing match and a drunken, bloody bar room brawl.

Ironically enough (and I probably shouldn't say this either, but again, I'm trying to be honest), my Dom has actually hurt me more, physically, than my father ever did. (Psychologically, of course, my father is much worse.) But it's the type of pain, the way it's inflicted, the reason for it and, crucially, as ever, knowing that it will stop if I ever give the word.

As i said when i posted, the dynamics are COMPLETELY different between the abuse i suffered & the play i experience with dp. There isn't even a shred of comparison between the two, because one was utterly terrifying & soul destroying whilst the other makes me feel invigorated. I would never ever compare dp to the animals that assaulted me, & in fact like AynR i have some very solid hard limits based upon what i experienced. I don't get some perverted pleasure out of reliving the abuse i suffered!

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting for one moment the dynamics are the same. I am suggesting a potential link though.

The reality is the more people tie their selves in knots trying to argue it's not fucked up, the more fucked up it looks.

Bottom line is some people are getting hit, hard, repeatedly. At their request. They want to believe that the person hurtng them isn't doing it because that's what they like.

Behind closed doors, someone is beating you hard, often humiliating you, dominating you. You like that. They like that. You're consenting adults and if you wish to be beaten, then be beaten, but for the rest of us, it's always going to be a very very fucked up and concerning dynamic.

What's even more worrying is that people are saying it's just about me not understanding, i don't get it, when the opposite is true, it's about the people doing this not understanding or willing to accept just how fucked up their behaviour is.

It's not me who doesn't get it. It's the people doing it. The ones being hurt and physically abused at their own request. These are the people who don't understand or won't admit, to just how fucked up it is.