Private Boarding vs. Day School vs. Grammar

[Breeze67]

As a parent of a Year 5 DD, I’m struggling to justify the premium of a private day school. My primary concern is the disruption and mixed academic abilities in comprehensive state schools, which is why a selective school—be it a grammar or an independent one—seems like a solid solution. There is so much praise for independent schools, but when you look at the time factor, it gets complicated: When you look at how little time kids are actually at school—only covering half the year (private schools have much longer holidays) and only 8 out of 24 hours in a school day—it is clear that the heavy lifting, the real character building, and extra learning still happen at home. If we parents are doing the bulk of the work, what are we actually paying the big fees for?
Despite the fancy surface, much of the day-to-day experience between a grammar and an indie is not significantly different. Whether it’s museum trips, sports days, or classroom activities, the core experience cannot be vastly different. Is a class of 20-plus kids in a private day school really that much better than 30 in a top grammar? Of course, a difference exists, but likely impacts less than 1/3 of the school time. So, if we look at the maths, it’s 1/3 (the advantage) of 1/3 (the school day duration) of 1/2 (the school year), which is only about 1/18 of the year's time! Are we paying a figure roughly equivalent to the UK average salary for what essentially amounts to a 1/18 difference in yearly education? I am shocked by the number.
This leads me to wonder: is boarding the only true exception? Personally, I will not do it because I just enjoy my kid's company every day. But logically, only full boarding offers a genuine holistic education. It is a 24/7 immersion into an academic and social community that a day school, by design, simply cannot touch.
So, if day schools aren't significantly better than grammars, and I’m unwilling to consider boarding, am I left with a compromise? Are we paying for a superior education, or just a different peer group?

They are set for Maths from year 9. No other sets, though various streams to mix up the classes a bit - not based on academic ability.

Everyone does triple science so they don't need to set for that.

My daughter went to SPGS and got way less homework than this until she started A Levels, no more usually than about half an hour to an hour a night, at the very most. Most of it she got done at school. And no, she was neither hothoused nor a genius. The teachers just didn't set homework unless they thought it was actually useful.

This sounds really similar to SPGS.

Thanks for the kind wishes. Just a quick reminder: when you say "they choose private because...", I was actually one of those parents six years ago. I was fully aware of the potential benefits of private education back then, and I would likely choose the private route again if my DD doesn't secure a spot at a grammar school. However, I would be more realistic this time around, having had six years of experience with the private sector. Since she is currently in Year 5 and will take her grammar school exams next term, it would be far too late if I were only just starting to find a tutor! We have been at it for a few months now, and overall, I am quite confident about her 11+ prospects, but we shall see.

I thought the premise that you have to do loads of homework to get top grades was false. Of course to get excellent results one needs to work hard, but not necessarily through standard homework. The work assigned by schools is often too streamlined and does not effectively target a child's specific areas for improvement. Your daughter can work on those specific areas to boost her grades if she wants to. If school homework takes up too much time, it becomes counterproductive.

She's left school now. She's going to university in the autumn. I agree that you don't need to be doing tons of homework to get good grades.

The teachers just didn't set homework unless they thought it was actually useful.

@BonjourCrisette

How do you learn math without doing exercises or memorise science without revision, how do you pass GCSE without learning

Useless maths exercises? Useless history revisions?

Sorry but it doesn't sound rational

Well, in two subjects I didn't but I was gifted. For the rest I had to study. And at universities I also actually studied. At work also work😆

For GCSE top grades I guess her DD did some extra work at home which was not called “homework” (which was meant to be set by the school).

According to the school's structural guidelines and curriculum outlines:

• For Years 9, 10, and 11 (GCSEs): > "Homework is set for every school day and normally takes about two hours."

https://www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/about-st-pauls/13plus/?hl=en-GB#:~:text=All%20pupils%20also%20have%20one,normally%20takes%20about%20two%20hours.

• For the Sixth Form (A-Levels): > "Pupils in Years 12–13 are encouraged to spend a minimum of 15 hours each week on homework and private study." (Which breaks down to about 3 hours a day).

https://www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/about-st-pauls/13plus/?hl=en-GB#:~:text=Pupils%20in%20Years%2012%E2%80%9313,flexi%2Dboarding%20places%20are%20available.

You are saying that she didn't have to study? Maybe she did it like my son in the library and you were not aware

Honestly, the workload was nowhere near that. And that is also the wrong school.

Yes, of course she revised before her GCSEs and A Levels. Other than that she just paid attention in class and did what homework was set.

There was a homework timetable which allowed for up to an hour a night in the lower years. In practice, a lot of this was 'read this poem', or spend twenty minutes on the presentation due in two weeks time, or nothing was set in the slot allocated because they'd finished what needed to be done in class.

Bit horrified at that SPS workload, actually! I'll ask DD at some point if that is really accurate as she had plenty of friends at the boys' school.

There was a homework timetable which allowed for up to an hour a night in the lower years
So it is 5 hours per week. If you add up what I listed it is similar. I bet before tests it was more

Other than that she just paid attention in class and did what homework was set.

Like in every school in top sets. So she was doing homework....

In practice, a lot of this was 'read this poem', or spend twenty minutes on the presentation due in two weeks time, or nothing was set in the slot allocated because they'd finished what needed to be done in class.

Contemporary education is not only about poems, presentations and crocheting. There is Mathematics, Science, Geography, History and there are tests and required regular revisions.
Most of the young people will have huge problem with finding a job,- shrinking job market, today’s youth face an uphill battle. With AI and robotics advancing rapidly, students have to be five times better than the competition just to pursue careers that will still exist tomorrow.

Maybe they actually are leaving school capable of having a conversation in French? Something very rare without a regular homework, practice and revisions...

Actually my daughter did French and is very much capable of holding a conversation. It didn't require three hours work a night or even close. And she absolutely was not spending an hour a night on homework in lower years or even being set as much as that. Up to five hours a week is very different from what you described, especially as it wasn't actually five hours a week but often only about an hour or two a week in total.

I don't think you have read anything that I said properly and you obviously think I am not telling the truth. You just want to argue that your approach is the only right one. Nobody has mentioned crochet.

As DD received an excellent education from a school that understood how to foster learning without setting pointless busywork and is off to Oxford in the autumn without having to have spent all her evenings doing schoolwork, I'll leave it there.

Friends in y7 at SPGS regularly do HW that is unheard of in y7 state.

How much time an 11yo would usually need to read three novels like "Pride and Prejudice" and write an essay or deliver a presentation on a particular theme from the novels? My DC is a voracious reader but even one novel would take at least a week.

My daughter went to SPGS and got way less homework than this until she started A Levels, no more usually than about half an hour to an hour a night, at the very most.
How much time an 11yo would usually need to read three novels

If I understand her words correctly, SPGS homework never goes over an hour a night, even for GCSEs! That is an unusual policy, but I will take her word for it. It could just be that her daughter is super bright—she got into Oxbridge, after all—and most of her classmates are also top-tier, so they can probably knock out work in half the time it would take a state school kid as you rightly suggested. Plus, I checked the school’s website and their ethos is about student independence rather than being rule-based. The lack of a school uniform and the light homework seem go hand in hand. Since so many of the girls are self-motivated or get extra tutoring anyway, it makes sense that the school does not pile on the homework, and yet, they still get amazing results.

Sorry I just cannot comprehend all this speculations based on web sites info 😂

I gave a specific example of HW for a specific age group and asked why it doesn't look like a light touch HW that can be done in 30 minutes.

No one can read 3 proper novels in 30 minutes, however super bright they may be.

Most of the young people will have huge problem with finding a job,- shrinking job market, today’s youth face an uphill battle. With AI and robotics advancing rapidly, students have to be five times better than the competition just to pursue careers that will still exist tomorrow.

I agree that the job market has become more competitive, and students need to stand out or do something that AI cannot easily replace. To me, that means prioritizing deep study, cultivating original work rather than endless amounts of standard homework. It might mean achieving something exceptional in a niche area rather than just getting 11 grade 9s at GCSE! I believe in quality over quantity; typical homework and great exam grades alone will not equip our kids with the X-factor they need to have a successful career in this AI age.

Actually my daughter did French and is very much capable of holding a conversation. It didn't require three hours work a night or even close.

You made me laugh. As a fluent speaker of several languages I can confirm, you either have a multi rounded genius at home or simply you have no idea what you are talking about

. 3 hours per week at School doesn't give opportunity to ever learn at a level where you can have a comfortable conversation because there are at least two dozens of kids in the class. The ability to speak after school is limited to asking basic questions

Language Learning Hours Breakdown (French)
The numbers below reflect cumulative hours—meaning the total number of hours required starting from an absolute beginner level.
The CEFR Guidelines (Alliance Française)
These estimates represent guided learning hours (classroom time or structured self-study) required to reach each official European framework level:

• A1 (Beginner): 60 to 100 hours
• A2 (Elementary): 160 to 200 hours
• B1 (Intermediate): 360 to 400 hours
• B2 (Upper-Intermediate): 560 to 650 hours
• C1 (Advanced): 810 to 950 hours
• C2 (Mastery): 1,060 to 1,200+ hours

Note: Reaching B1 takes roughly 400 hours. Moving from B1 to C1 requires an additional 450 to 550 hours, which effectively doubles the total time commitment.

• During the first three years of secondary school (Key Stage 3), number of hours adds up to just 38 to 76 hours of French per year. And this is not 1:1 but in the classroom of two dozen of kids

• After 3 years, a student has racked up only 120 to 220 total hours. According to the official CEFR scale we looked at earlier, that barely gets them to an A2 level -and that’s assuming they were paying perfect attention.

I believe in quality over quantity;

The competition to top Universities is that one has to have quantity with a good quality.
Nobody is discussing doing homework without paying attention to it .

I have two master degrees including one from the very good US Uni. I do not believe things come from the air without opening a book.

I think Dcs have to be a bit more dedicated over homework at day schools. Some might stay open for dc to do prep on the premises. My DDs boarded and prep time was built in after light tea in dedicated work areas. Worked for them. They did what was required according to their reports!

A lot of boarding and day schools are easier to get into than grammars unless you are in Bucks or Kent with county systems and lots of grammars taking a larger %. Move to a grammar area if you want one.

Of course, 3 Austen novels in 30 minutes is ridiculous; but isn't that your exaggeration for the sake of argument? Actually, she said "up to an hour a night in the lower years," and she mentioned "a presentation due in two weeks' time". She probably doesn't even count the weekends. Overall it could involve a couple of hours spent reading three novels across two weeks, which is not contradictory to her claim. Plus, you do not need to read every page; you can just skim the text to be able to write a comparison presentation.

Your argument treats homework like mindless busywork, which is just nonsense. In the real world, homework addresses newly introduced concepts that students haven't mastered yet. It is the very vehicle for deep study, not an alternative to it. You can't bypass the hard work of learning the core curriculum and leap straight to 'exceptional niche achievements'-the fundamentals matter

The 'quality over quantity' argument here is a total fallacy. You cannot bypass the 'quantity' phase of learning and magically leap into high-quality, original work. Achieving something exceptional in a niche requires a massive foundation of repetitive, structured practice first. The standard curriculum and homework are how you build that foundational knowledge. Calling it 'quantity over quality' completely misunderstands how deep learning actually works- you need the basic tools before you can build something original.

Please implement that " quality over quantity" on 11+ to superselective grammar first and you see the results.

The competition to top Universities is that one has to have quantity with a good quality.
@BlueMoonIceCream

To be fair, she did say the light homework load ends once students reach A-levels, and you can assume that in the sixth form, her daughter did a significant amount of study to get into Oxford. I think Oxbridge looks for quality over quantity in its own entrance exams and interviews; they use GCSE and A level results mainly as pre-screening and post-offer requirements. Homework can only help you up to the point of standardized exams.