Private Boarding vs. Day School vs. Grammar

[Breeze67]

As a parent of a Year 5 DD, I’m struggling to justify the premium of a private day school. My primary concern is the disruption and mixed academic abilities in comprehensive state schools, which is why a selective school—be it a grammar or an independent one—seems like a solid solution. There is so much praise for independent schools, but when you look at the time factor, it gets complicated: When you look at how little time kids are actually at school—only covering half the year (private schools have much longer holidays) and only 8 out of 24 hours in a school day—it is clear that the heavy lifting, the real character building, and extra learning still happen at home. If we parents are doing the bulk of the work, what are we actually paying the big fees for?
Despite the fancy surface, much of the day-to-day experience between a grammar and an indie is not significantly different. Whether it’s museum trips, sports days, or classroom activities, the core experience cannot be vastly different. Is a class of 20-plus kids in a private day school really that much better than 30 in a top grammar? Of course, a difference exists, but likely impacts less than 1/3 of the school time. So, if we look at the maths, it’s 1/3 (the advantage) of 1/3 (the school day duration) of 1/2 (the school year), which is only about 1/18 of the year's time! Are we paying a figure roughly equivalent to the UK average salary for what essentially amounts to a 1/18 difference in yearly education? I am shocked by the number.
This leads me to wonder: is boarding the only true exception? Personally, I will not do it because I just enjoy my kid's company every day. But logically, only full boarding offers a genuine holistic education. It is a 24/7 immersion into an academic and social community that a day school, by design, simply cannot touch.
So, if day schools aren't significantly better than grammars, and I’m unwilling to consider boarding, am I left with a compromise? Are we paying for a superior education, or just a different peer group?

I have DC in both private day and grammar and they are in their schools for very different reasons because they are very different children. We chose schools that suited our children rather than breaking it down to a cost value ratio. I think if you approach it like this then you are never going to feel comfortable paying out for private. If you approach it along the lines of .. looked at all available options and this school is best suited to my child then you’ll appreciate the benefits much more if you’re paying for it. Some grammars are excellent at providing a full co-curricular experience, others much less so however most private schools (esp those with borders) will always offer an extensive extra curricular experience that cannot be replicated even in the very best grammar schools. How academic they are depends entirely on how selective they are of course. It’s hard to compare, grammar v Indy is a very different experience because not all schools are made equal. If you’re in the privileged position where you have the option to go private and also try for grammar (and get a place) then choose the school that best suits your child.

You do what’s best for that child. Full stop.

We’re paying for a happy child and childhood. Education is a long game. We want the overall experience to be positive.

I can say with absolutely certainty that I would not have got the GCSE grades I got if I had gone to a state school. It probably means little now after so much time but back then i was proud of them and no one can take them from me. In a private school, some if the teachers were more prepared to help and take the time with those who struggle. My Maths teacher spent many evenings after school taking out of her own time going over the coursework with me as many times as she needed to until I understood it. A friends Mum was a teacher in a state school a she said no one in a state school would spend that time with a child. It's was really sad to hear that they cared little about whether pupils passed or failed.

It is too general for comparison and what you need are data between the schools you are looking at. The variables factors and pros and cons will show from a smaller list of schools. MN can get more in-depth information if they know which ones you comparing.

In an alternative scenario where you had not attended a private school, would you have attended a grammar school? If not, would you have had a tutor? If not, would your parents have helped you with your GCSE work? If not, were you naturally academic or self-motivated in your studies? These factors matter. If the answer to all of these is no, then, of course, one has to rely solely on the private school to prepare them for those academic results. Otherwise, if the answer to some of these questions is yes, one might still thrive academically in a state school.

Is getting good GCSE results the only outcome from school?

I went to a private school and go fantastic results. I was also bullied for years (very linked to the private school as it was to do with my not being from the same background of the majority of others) and left with huge self esteem issues that took years to get over and massively affected my adult life.

I think I would have got good but potentially not "as good" results from a state school as I was highly motivated anyway. Long term I think it would have made no difference to my career outcomes.

I agree that every school and every child is different, and choosing from schools or attempting to gain admission is a very personalised and nuanced process. I also agree that we should choose what best suits our children, but I would add that it must also best suit our family, as we have to consider the interests of the family as a whole. It is not sustainable to sacrifice everything for your child. Yes, if I focus on the strengths and the aspects that fit my child, I would appreciate the school more.

@Breeze67 your writing style is very AI.

The majority of children in England (don't know about the other three nations) do not live near enough to a grammar school to go to one. If I was choosing between a grammar and private, and didn't have to move house to a grammar area, I would probably choose grammar.

ETA but your 'tiny fraction of overall hours at school' calculation cuts both ways - if you wholeheartedly believe that, send your child to the worst school you can find, as it doesn't make a difference, in your eyes...

There are only 163 grammar schools in England, 65 in NI, and none at all in Scotland or Wales. They just aren't on the radar for the vast majority of parents. Not that you would know this the way they are spoken about so blithely on Mumsnet.

Our nearest one is a super-selective and 2 hours away - and we are hardly in the middle of nowhere.

If you are in a Grammar school area is your child able enough to get into one? It does depend where you are but in some areas with selective state education parents are not choosing between all of your 3 options - if your child is unlikely to get a place in a selective school its a non selective or private choice, if they will get a place it’s grammar/ selective or private (and selective schools aren ‘t necessarily disruption free) .
And non selective state schools vary a lot with regard to how they deal with mixed ability and behaviour - the important question is what are the actual schools you would be considering like, whichever group they fall into.

Unfortunately yes, from what i remember bullying wasn't a big issue at my school but I was a musician which wasn't as well respected as academia or sports. We had a lot of very high scoring students whereas i was a straight C girl. When I left my self esteem was on the floor. It took years to work it up, but it will never be high. My school days were a carousel of 'not good enough' even stuff i originally thought i was good at didn't matter because there was always someone better than me. That's the risk you take going to a selective school.

I went private, my DH was state. He refused to even consider state for his two (my gorgeous SC). My DD went state - total cluster*ck of behavioural policies and large class control so as soon as I had the money I moved her to private. Her experience has been amazing - everything from attitude, what they're focused on, covid provision, help and support with any areas she has struggled with, bringing her up to speed in maths and English after 2 years in state primary, resources / facilities, ability to do extra curricular (state could only accommodate X places for music lessons).

HOWEVER I only did it when I had plenty of money spare - and frankly the cost now vs even 10 yrs ago is becoming beyond prohibitive. Had I not reached a strong financial position (and by that I mean comfortably paying for school AND going on nice holidays and affording household stuff) I would have thrown money at tutors and experiences at home.

The fact of your breakdown suggests to me that sending DD private is potentially a financial step too far

PS. When your DD is 15 she'll think you're largely ridiculous and won't want to spend much time with you. Some boarding at 13+ has been very much enjoyed by my DD (plus chosen by her) - it's 24 hrs a day with friends.

In our case:
We don't have any grammar schools in our county so DD went to the local (rather good) comprehensive school
DD had a lot of support for GCSEs from me.
She had a tutor for maths.
She is quite academic, not as motivated for GCSEs as she was for A levels/degree/post grad degree, but that was due to emotional maturity.

Basically, DD thrived academically at her school. We seriously considered an independent school, but it basically came down to cost. It meant that we could afford a tutor when it was required and we could support her through university.

There were no grammar schools in my area, there were two private schools, a state with boarding and the local comp. My parents were very happy to help me and I may still have had the extra maths but I was not naturally academic nor self motivated. Thar grades I got were still mostly C's with a couple of B's but the best i could. I went state for 6th form and left with two E's and a U.

It might depend on how 'worst' the school is. Provided there are no bullying or disruption issues that exceed my previous time and cost calculations, I have to stick to my guns and agree that she will still thrive at a school with a poor reputation, provided she has plenty of support from family. However, emotionally, I would still try my best to avoid that school just to put my mind at ease, even if it requires a huge financial sacrifice. I admit that my behavior is paradoxical to some degree.

I’d also knock 8h of sleep out of each day when doing your calculations and compare number of school days like for like (a state school will have 13-14 weeks of holiday where a private school might have 18-20 weeks)

Whether it’s museum trips, sports days, or classroom activities, the core experience cannot be vastly different.

I think the core experience and approach can actually be very different!

Suppose today a private school and a state school both visit the British Museum or both hold a sports day. Why would the experiences be very different? And suppose they both teach a mathematics lesson today; what is the huge difference between a selective state school classroom and a selective private school classroom? I am curious to know.

@Breeze67 have you entered your DD for grammar and private school exams this autumn? Deadlines are coming up, if not already passed, so get your skates on.

Most of us are comparing a few options eg where we live, we were likely to get one particular state secondary which was OK, but huge, and less likely to get the next nearest state, which had better facilities but worse teaching.

We looked at 3 private schools and DS sat the exams for 2. No grammar schools. In our view, both private schools were better than our local state and one in particular was better for travel convenience, slightly less good for academics. Luckily he got into that one.

Very few people sit down with an abstract equation of percentage of hours at school to make this decision in the way you (or AI) are suggesting.

I have already registered for all the necessary exams and constructed my preference ranking. Thank you very much. My rumination on the cost-time analysis has nothing to do with the actual decision. Sadly, I guess I have to take a day private school route if we do not get into a grammar school, even if I do not believe the day private option is worth it based on my calculation. You and other posters have just confirmed what I said: the choice of schooling must be a compromise.

I agree that a visit to the British Museum is likely to be very similar. Though depending on the state school it may not be possible to run as many trips as in a private school. For instance, my child went on a minimum of two trips to the theatre per term for Drama GCSE. Her friend doing Drama GCSE at a good state school did not go to the theatre once with school.

The funding and manpower available for sports days is likely to be considerably higher in the independent sector. Plus children are likely to spend a lot more lesson time doing sport in the independent sector. They are more likely to get the chance to try a wide variety of sports out.

If you are in a Maths lesson, in the school my daughter went to you would definitely be taught by someone with at least one degree in Maths. If you were in a Maths lesson in her friend's school, you have a reasonable chance of being taught by someone with no degrees in Maths. Maths and Sciences are notorious shortage subjects for teachers.

It was our experience that when my child struggled with anything teachers had plenty of time to help her and the desire to do so. Not universally the case at her friend's school.

Sadly, I guess I have to take a day private school route if we do not get into a grammar school, even if I do not believe the day private option is worth it based on my calculation.

You don’t have to. If you don’t think it’s worth the money, then don’t.

Have you ever bought anything in your life you thought was not worth the price tag but still felt you had to own? Human psychology is complicated but very real!

Not really, but if I did, I wouldn't go on mumsnet and pull out all kinds of stats about how opting for the thing I was opting for made no monetary sense.

And you haven't bought it yet. You can decide not to buy it at any time between now and next March.