Anti-misogyny classes - have schools lost trust in boys, what went wrong

[Renati]

Why do I feel like the default expectation from boys in schools is that they are a threat so that we need to have these classes in schools.

What went wrong?

We all know and can feel what boys need and want in life to be good brothers, fathers, husbands and people in the community and somehow...instead of reinforcing these things in schools they are going off on a tangent based on what? The manosphere? Seriously? How distracted can an entire government get.

Is the only way out of this backwards caveman style teaching is to homeschool? Boys in school are not given the space to express themselves without first being told the reason the feel the way they feel is...innately probably because they are a person who needs correcting.

This doesn't just affect men, if you provide a society where men grow up resentful of the conditions and expectations set around them, you will have men more resentful for women....and guess what...this does encourage boys to not the become the brothers, fathers and husbands they could be because this is only possible if society creates a safe space for boys to feel secure and validated for their feeling growing up.

Mysogny is dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.

Unfortunately many influencers on the internet promote such views. Some boys are vulnerable to such views and take them on.

Schools may attempt to challenge such attitudes in PSHE lessons. They are not saying all boys and men are 'bad' or hold these views, rather they are discussing them and highlighting how damaging they are for boys and girls.

Anti-mysogyny is challenging hatred and prejudice towards women and girls Such attitudes are really damaging - I have no idea why discussing and challenging such attitudes is a bad thing.

@renati why do you think discussing and challenging negative attitudes towards women and girls at school is a bad thing?

I have two boys and they are only small but I would be supportive of such classes if I thought they made a difference . I watched that manosphere thing recently and was horrified . I suppose my concern with these teachings is that they could actually make things even worse in reality . When you are told not to behave in a certain manner in a formal way in school teenagers often rebel against things as far as I can see . Like I remember all the classes we had in school about not having sex before marriage (living in Catholic Ireland ). Everyone just sniggered about it and it went in one ear and out the other . Not to mention the “alcohol and smoking are bad” lessons which did nothing to prevent people drinking and smoking

No-one has mentioned the elephant in the room yet - porn.

Those choices only affected the individuals involved though - if you decide to start smoking, it doesn’t harm others (unless in your immediate household).

Misogyny displayed by boys harms girls, who have had no say in the matter. It also harms boys, but for the purposes of this post, put that to one side.

Any action which harms another person should be called out and challenged, and given the harms to women and girls from male privilege and behaviour, which have persisted over centuries, it is vital that it’s challenged.

Saying that doing so pushes them to behave even worse is a sad prejudice about how boys will respond to being told they are harming female people around them.

I don’t know for sure it would push them to do that . I’m only speculating. Anti-bullying things don’t prevent bullying either. Etc etc

It's about time
I went to a nice girls grammar in the 90s in Northern Ireland
And let me tell you the posh boys grammar schools nearby, a lot of the boys were misogynistic.
All brushed off especially if they had money and were good at rugby
Lots of victim blaming esp over the 2017 rugby rapr trial and the 2024 case where a very prestigious grammar school lost (rightly so) to a pupil who had undergone a humiliating rugby initation ritual.
It's never "just banter ".
There is a very good blogger on this Gemma Mc Sherry who writes about this

100 agree
I experienced this from the nearby boys grammar schools in the 90s
Usually from wealthy backgrounds
Sadly nothing has changed

62 million men accessed a "rape academy" website in one month.
It's got out of control and one way to tackle it is in schools.

First of all I do not think the school setting favours many boys. They spend a decade or so being slotted into a system that many find alien. It's not surprising thst they might come out the other end somewhat bitter.
I don't see a big problem with helping young men to understand their role and acceptable behaviour. It is a response/antidote to some of the grim stuff that comes their way.

@Renati what do you want them to teach?

Many males don’t recognise misogyny. Many men probably think they show respect but actually in some of their actions are misogynistic

Sport is encouraged for boys. Our local secondary school had a real issue with misogyny, girls and female teachers were scared. Interestingly the source for some of this behaviour were the local sports clubs. Some of these clubs after discussions with the school are running their own schemes to reduce misogyny

Things like anti bullying conversations encourage people to speak up when they experience or witness bullying though which is half the battle giving people the confidence to say “that is wrong” and knowing a system will support them in saying so.

That’s true I suppose . It’s sad that things have gotten this bad but if it would make some difference it’s worth it

So how exactly would you tackle mysoginistic behaviour, sexual aggression , disrespect and sexism in boys ?
You think this initiative is wrong, fair enough. What is the right way then?

I am raising FOUR sons and you bet I am gong to be teaching them to cross the road if they are walking behind a secluded, lone girl/woman.

Your position genuinely baffles me.

It's another society issue being shoved at schools where how it will be handle there will vary enormously depenent on school and the teacher.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be covered- with how we treat others being a learnt behavior and understanding that others have different experinces in same environements that can often not if not effecting your group - be that round colour disablity or sex - that is useful to cover.

I do think how media covering it and some government pronouncements are unhelpful but expect that it cheaper to say something that hist media mood than actually fixing the court system of low conviction rates for rape and sexual assults so dangerous men get caught earlier and stopped earlier.

One of the most important thing boys/men can do is call out misogyny. We can bring up our sons not to engage in misogynistic behaviour, but they also need to call it out when they see their mates, work colleagues etc engaging in it.

Sorry to be naive, but why were they making animal noises? Google isn't helping. I've not heard of it.

After a few disgusting incidents at high school, I signed my daughter up for self defense classes. I am glad she’s learning this, but I’m not sure that should have been the reason. As a side benefit my son is learning a healthy respect for her strength!

Women cannot dismantle the patriarchy alone, we need allies and friends and support from everyone. And that starts with honesty.

I think people who are against this kind of thing think the bad guys walk around looking different.

Trust me, they don't and I speak from experience. That's why the not walking behind a woman thing in the dark is a courtesy. Yes it's not all men but you can't tell which men it is and most women have had a bad experience (or more than one).

Most people think that misogynistic attitudes and jokes are just for fun. But we saw from the whatsapp messages of Wayne Couzens that actually things like that can be signs of deeper abhorrent attitudes towards women and normalise lower level behaviours.

Would I love it if more fathers, respected male leaders in society and male teachers were having these conversations? Yes. But in the absence of men stepping up, someone has to.

@ThatFairy why is it an unhealthy thing to teach him. Many women feel unsafe walking on their own at night. Isn’t it a good thing to teach your son about how some women/girls will feel and how he can help with that.

https://www.facebook.com/FemaleQuotient/videos/thats-what-girls-have-to-think-about-all-the-time-actress-saoirse-ronan-spoke-ou/2206784536374919/

This demonstrates how some men don’t get it

I agree men and boy should be encouraged to call misogyny out.

However DC school had an anti racist program - DD2 and her friends had a very person on edge of their group who made some nasty racist comments. They reported via this program girl was told who reported her - and kicking of a very nasty fall out and some bullying and racist girl wasn't really told off - just told to be more careful.

Long term the entire episode had the opposite effect on the kids and was just a tick box exercise.

It was a bad school generally but I do think rather than assuming such programs work there should be some metrics for their effectiveness and very least some reearch to make sure they aren't making situations worse.

Your sister was right. We treat them all as a threat because you can't tell by looking at them

I keep coming back to the idea that schools should overtly teach kindness as a foundation of the school and of a healthy society. That it should be the theme of every day. That it should be talked about all the time. Was what you did kind? How can you behave in a kinder way?

This covers it all for either gender - bullying, female bitchiness, male misogyny - the lot. It needs to be the running thread of every day from primary onwards.

Porn isn't the only elephant in the room though but mention of the other one would get one on the naughty step.

Schools can only do so much but, as I was once told by a pupil, they go home and any good work done by the school is wiped out. It can't just be dumped on schools, like all the other jibs that a lot of parents can't be bothered with.